chzchan

Oh yeah on the topic of that, is j.214S actually a decent move to use after 214K > Air Dash after a beak driver ender to hit on the opponent's wakeup? I have so far not tried it, but it seems like an okay idea.

Ah I always end up low on food so I'd rather not go for the loop and the loop is character/weight specific as hell. Also these are more for on the fly kind of situations. Like most of the time I get a CH with the tip of 236D, I am either doing 236K to continue pressure and stay in with a low or 214K to go in with an overhead. Hell, if you get the 236D CH on an airborne opponent the loop is out the window because the height spacing is messed up. I just want consistency. The cool part about these routes is that the timing for both the delay of j.S and j.K after the 214K are the same timings that you would use if you never got the CH in the first place and you wanted the opponent to block. Then the same for the 236K though you have way more time to think with that one. In order to use j.S > j.6H or just j.6H you need to KNOW that you are going to get the CH or have the CH register in your mind so quickly that you input the correct hop, directional tap, and proper delay for the air normals. I am incapable of doing that so I am taking the easy way out since there is one. Even though there still does need to be a semi-immediate decision between j.K and j.S, I don't mind that because the information about the distance between the opponent and myself is already available before the CH while I am applying pressure. Also, though this could turn into a bad habit for people, you can use j.S as your jump-in from some distance away and j.K as the jump-in if you are closer. That gets rid of the decision entirely if you are aware of your relative position on the screen at all times.

Random tip of 236H CH confirms based on distance with damage on Sol: Close [4 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delayed) > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.P > dj.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [175 DM] [4 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delayed) > 6H > j.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [166 DM] [1 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delayed) > 5H [66/89 DM] Mid-Far [4 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K > j.S(delayed) > 5P > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.P > dj.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [171 DM] [1 kcal] CH 236H(tip)> 214K(tap 6) > j.S(delayed) > 5P > 5H [78/98 DM] There are better and more optimized combos, but these work on every weight class and character without having to adjust or delay the initial confirm stuff in any way. They are incredibly consistent at their respective ranges. In fact, both work fine at any range, but they must be adjusted for other variables slightly if they are used outside of them. There only needs to be slight adjustments done in the air based on character differences which may alter combo damage slightly. Just know that the 214K(tap 6) > j.K(delay) > 5H and 214K > j.S(delayed) > 5P will always work on every character. Omitting the 5H from the combo using j.K will actually make the combo much easier since 6H moves you forward. Only thing is that doing 6H without 5H first puts them in the air higher and also leaves you further from the opponent so the air stuff may have to be changed as bit as well since things may whiff etc. Alternate combos for other common situations to get the CH in: Close [6 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2S > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [181 DM] [3 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2S > 5H [75/98 DM] Mid-Far [6 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2P > 5P > 5H > 6H > j.S > j.P > dj.S > j.6H > j.214S > j.236H [150 DM] [3 kcal] CH 236H(tip) > 236K(w) > 2P > 5P > 5H [59/79 DM]

What is the best way to bait anti-air? Just hold 4 after a hop? Which air normal/special gets the most reward?

So after a 236K for example, should I be doing the command hop instead of f.S? Should I just jump and try to air grab?

I seem to be hitting opponents jumping out of my pressure or randomly in neutral with the tip of f.S a lot but they are always positioned so that 236D will not connect. What should be done in this fairly common case to at least maintain pressure without spending meter?

Punishing Gauntlet Hades followup with a 2A low profile sucks now because 2A > 2C is no longer a thing. Even if they delay the followup for too long, if you do 2A5C2C, 2C will whiff because Ragna will be too high up. If you do 2A5B, 5B will whiff if they don't delay but will still land just barely if they do delay since they are closer to the ground. You have to try to get him with 2C, but that is so much harder to get out properly and he will be able to block it if he decides not to do the followup when before he would eat 2A retaliation regardless of what he did if he had no meter. The little things that just make it that much harder.

Christ man don't quote the entire image and then leave after posting. Just snip it so it doesn't take up double the space. Also tag battles would be cool if they were added as an option, but I can feel that there will be heavy heavy balancing issues that I would not want them to try and fix by adjusting the characters to fit that mode in a way that affects their 1v1 effectiveness. That would truly ruin everything, but it all really depends on what direction they go.

Here, I found it on one of my older drive picture archives. It is a pretty huge image. I know there are some facts being misinterpreted somewhere because I just get lost.

I think I remember reading that one explanation a while back about how Ragna can only become the black beast if he is either an exact clone of his dad who is also Ragna or that there were genetically identical clones with one being male and one being female that are both Ragna so that he could exist without impure genes. I actually don't even remember why this explanation even made any sense, but it feels like something that Mori would pull. Can't find the image right now but the logic was pretty difficult to follow.

It seems like a pretty great option out for Grab > RC or Dust in the corner since you spend so little food on the Beak Driver loop due to it only being 1 kcal per repetition. Probably not the best idea out of X > 236H > RC > etc. since the combo requires so much food. One useful thing about the restand is that it makes is incredibly difficult for the opponent to time a reversal or jump correctly if you don't go for reset shenanigans with ground normals. Not exactly sure what the grab invuln properties of the wall slide wakeup are compared to regular wakeup, but it is so much easier to grab people or punish people who expect a grab.

Damn we got played by Microsoft.

I can do a in depth analysis of the matchup because I have a Kagura buddy that I fight all the time and have been fighting for more than a year. Feel free to ask any question here and I will give you the solution. This matchup is actually even or maybe in her favor slightly if you have the endurance to lame the other player out and not feel bad about it. The secret to winning is to give him zero respect because none of his mixups or pressure demand it. You can actually just jump out of all of his stance mixups for free. If you get hit randomly in neutral you are dead though. And that's Kagura. Addressing things you talked about in your original post: 2A his wakeup after a low positioned air ender. His C flash kick got nerfed so you should be able to block before you get hit even though 2A's recovery got increased by 2 frames to 10 from 8. IB the projectile and hit 5C or jump. You can grab Kagura out of the startup of 5DA if you hadn't barriered whatever stance he may have used before. This is without IB. Don't need to commit to a DP at all. Hell, you can just jump out as well because the gaps in his pressure are enourmous. If you know the timing, you can actually delay a C DP just enough so that his 5DA super armor ends and you'll be able to hit him every time he commits. You win neutral by making him commit to anything and then punishing since he has a ridiculous amount of recovery on everything. Just make sure you are prepared to punish things because if you are just slightly too late when you decide to run up after you see he whiffed a normal, you will get flash kicked.

Ah alright. Sounds like I will have to spend meter in order to get it but it seems worth it for all the utility that the loops have. Unburstable, max damage, and all the options to end them, they are just so good. Oh yeah so what is your opinion on restand ender/reset instead of knockdown? Ending with those instead of conventional knockdown makes me feel like I have sort of kind of mixup. After the hop from the final Beak Driver you can: 2H(2) > 5D/j.D/5H > 236K(delayed)/5H > 2D(delayed)/j.H(confirm with RTL) 2P > Shenanigans 5P(whiff) > Grab/2K/etc. 2K > c.S/2S > 5D(max range)/236K(delayed)/etc. 5K > 3K/2D(delayed)/5D/236K(delayed)/etc. Cool thing is that in some of the cases where 236K is used, you get at least the middle active frames of the slide so it will end up being slightly more than +2 when blocked.

Okay if you IB her 5C I am pretty sure you can jump out if you do it fast enough and it actually leaves a big enough gap for 214B/D's body invuln to kick in so you don't get FC'd by her 6B. Still really tricky because she can just fuck you with 3C or 6C since 3C will still catch jump startup if you IB and 6C will FC you if you try to 214X. 5C is also a prime target for ODR if you are feeling super ballsy.

Apparently they added gatling paths into and out of 6B so things have completely changed. And yeah, I am fighting Nemesis. He's the only person I have gotten 2.0 Mu-12 matchup experience from. Her 6B is completely safe now because she can just go into any C move after you block it and she can also go into it now out of any of her C moves as well. Her mixup is pretty safe now and much more flexible. She can do blockstrings like: 2B > 5C > 6B > 5C > 6C Out of any C normal (that isn't 6C) she can also do 3C, so 5C > 6B/3C is a pretty legit mixup. The gap between 5C and the second hit of 6B catches jump startup as well so you have to block it or DP. Problem is that when she is at the range where the first hit of 6B will whiff, she can easily make Tsubaki's DP whiff by simply not attacking because 5C is just so ridiculous. It is literal suffering. You are actually stuck blocking now and you cannot punish her while she is making you block.

What are the best ways to go into Beak Driver corner loops? I have been doing experiments with ending in a corner restand after getting in a few repetitions of 236[D] then command hopping and it seems like a much more effective way of staying on your opponent if you don't need to eat since you don't have to deal with knockdown. You have a variety of mixup options based on what normals you use, and you can pretty much crank their guard gauge up as much as you want if they don't FD. All I know right now are out of Grab > RC and a corner 5D with homing dash. Are there any other practical paths?

That's really scary actually. So now it went from being nearly impossible to hit her in the air to actually being impossible. Great. For now I'm going to try and think of what can be done to hit her out of her 6B if she is at the range to hit with the first part. I think it is a body attribute move so maybe 214B or 214D may be useful here if you aren't being shot by the bits while she is pressuring you.

Yes that is correct. These changes are definitely not too creative or cool, but they did provide some kind of stability and consistency which she was heavily lacking in. This isn't the way I would have wanted things but the changes turned out being more indirectly helpful than I originally thought. I remember writing up essays on why these changes suck and why they were ridiculously fucking lazy on the dev's part back before I was able to experience them. Hell, her damage "buff" isn't even that great when you look at relative damage buffs on other characters for how little risk they have to take compared to Tsubaki. I have not changed my opinion because she still suffers as a character for a lot of the same reasons, but these changes aren't impossible to work with.

Feels pretty good to me. Being able to control end positioning in combos super easily and get near full screen corner carry off of anything makes things much better in my eyes on top of the damage buff. Her neutral is still awful and her normals still suck, but she gets way more reward in terms of both damage and screen advantage for the risk she takes (which is the same or slightly more severe than before). The threat of actually killing people in 3-4 non-corner combos gets me respect I definitely didn't have in CP 1.1 where people would just shrug everything off and not care that much if I called them on anything correctly. If I catch a roll (and it is way easier to do so with the changes to her air combo enders) that's 2/5 of their health if I have 1 charge and 25%. If I get a random ground to air hit or just a random air hit, I can convert that into full screen corner carry and decent damage with 1 charge. Then charge acceleration and access to more ways to charge mid-combo thanks to 6CC and 22X series changes gets me more charges for doing all of this shit. Her bad matchups are arguably worse if you look at them from the CP 1.1 perspective, but instead of having to get in 6 or 7 times even after calling them on their wakeup options, you just outright kill them after a couple wrong guesses on their part. Your opponents in CP 2.0 have less chances to make mistakes which changes things a lot in my opinion (unless they are insane and can't be conditioned properly).

She got buffed in places where she needed it but she still suffers in most of the same places which made it so that her matchups really didn't change. She is definitely far better than CP 1.0/1.1, but I didn't see it until I played her extensively. Being able to kill my opponent in half the combos really helped out a lot.

Ah sorry, should have mentioned that. Might want to make a section in the frame data part of the wiki for it since they are divided now instead of both 80.

Small note that Crush Triggers got their P1 values buffed up from 80 to 90 so guard break combos deal pretty sizeable damage now.

Even though 421D > 236D wasn't that great of an option before, now that its anti-zoner utility got its knees cracked, what now? The Steins have limited range now as well, but they are still a wall. Still have never gotten proper footing in this matchup. Best I can do is 236B at round start and watch her 5C whiff and then have a good laugh after the knockdown before I immediately lose momentum because of guessing wrong on her wakeup. And this only ever works once. Also even though her 6B got "nerfed", I feel like I still have trouble blocking it, especially if they space themselves to make the first hit whiff. It just seems like they gave her 6B longer range in total instead of nerfing its mixup potential by making the first hit a mid. The second hit still comes out in 22 frames, so if she is at a range where the first hit will whiff (which is where she usually is when she is applying pressure), it is just as scary if not more scary because of how far forward it moves her. I see her doing it after I block a 5C when she is at her safe range and then the first hit whiffs and I have never blocked the second hit. Probably my fault, but I'm getting hit by it randomly after I block her C moves way more often. Her 5C is a level 4 move which means that there is a 4 frame gap between 5C and the second hit of 6B. That catches jump startup, right? She wasn't always able to do that, right? No problem blocking it if the first hit doesn't whiff. Air grabbing her out of her j.2C is really difficult now for some reason as well. Used to do it all the time but it just doesn't happen anymore.

No, they gave it 1 more active frame which means it is the same frame advantage if you hit with the first active frame. It is more positive on block if you hit with the latter active frames which makes it better if you hit from afar like after a 236D. If you hit with the very very last active frame of 236K now, it will be +7, but it is more common to hit between the second and the fourth when you're doing correctly spaced pressure. If you somehow make the opponent block the second hit of 5H at the max range of f.S, it actually sets you up perfectly to hit in the latter active frames of 236K.