reaVer

Mitsu: pm:(

Regardless of the size of your input, you'll always be basing it on player capabilities which results that in a tierlist you do take player skill into account. This is simply something that can't be avoided and this is also why tierlists change.

Perhaps dash under CH 5H MC works?

There is a 5 frame gap, and you can look it up in the basics under throw. I also implied it was the throw gap as I explained with my option select. When a person is finally delaying the string to bait the DP you got exactly what you want: him not trying to mix you up with normal vs throw; it means you changed a two way mixup into a three way mixup and that gives you more space to operate. You as a player should always know what your opponent is doing, if you don't know you lose. Now, you can't know what your opponent is doing in the beginning, perhaps, but then you can still make assumptions. Assuming that Sol will not guard the first mixup attempt he gets is reasonable and rather likely. So if you dped, the second time, its very likely he'll try to guard, and if he did... you knew what he was doing! Mission accomplished! At the same time you can't allow your opponent to know what you are doing, otherwise you also lose.

Evlenshadow culture Can't you get some recordings of 0's winstreak or something? I don't see 0 that often for example, and 0 vs Eddie is from last February or something:P

iirc you can do j.S in such a way you don't land in throw range, imo that's the thing you should go for. If you can't do that and you see/feel that your j.S will be IGed, then doublejump out or dj.S-H/D if you feel confident.

And how do you know what the maximum potential of a character is?

DP is really reliable if your opponent is attacking instead of guarding: it will always hit. Ok, so not everyone has a DP, Slayer has dandy step, DOT, Testament doesn't allow you to get in that situation to begin with and May has VD. Not even mentioning that the rest of the cast also has some bullshit to get them out or prevent Sol from getting in that situation. Super safe j.H and j.S only work as a meaty, outside they are DP beggars as much as any other attack. Next to that, j.S and j.H are option select backdash/guardable, after guarding those two attacks there's a little 5 frame gap where... you guessed it: your opponent can stick something in, some opponents can even use option select to guard any chains coming after j.S and j.H courtesy of autoguard: IG j.S, enter 623 quickly and if a low came you get guard, if there was a delay in the string you press H to DP anything else. And thanks to the IG, you don't get fuzzy guard and because he did it to avoid the DP he can't do another air attack without doublejumping.

His primary mixup is the most basic found in fightinggames. But if you keep him out of throw range he can't use it, even if he gets in throw range attempting to do that mixup risks an uppercut in his face. So yeah, he has a lot of stuff that goes into knockdown, which allows Sol to get close fairly easily to do his standard mixup, but what if he can't get that first hit in in the first place? That's the problem Sol has, if he can't get you in the situation he favors you avoid the mixup and avoid the damage that comes out of that mixup. I'm not saying that this is easy, but instead this is what Sol vs any character is going to be about, which in turn changes the game flow into something where Sol doesn't really shine.

This is kinda what hellmonkey is implying. Except that this applies the other way around as well, making it more or less even. A character's strength is based on multiple players' performance, so yes it does. So I guess it was Ogawa's bad day while Efute and Lime-Key had a good day? What about Sawa? Did he have a bad day when nearly reverse OCVing N-Otoko's team?

At what arcade does 0 play anyways?:P

I don't agree, because as soon as you know how to prevent Sol from doing his damage his mixup doesn't account for shit.

DAA on CH will always combo if your opponent is close enough. Just follow up with 5K-S-H sIAD.P-H SV. If you feel that the spacing is wrong you can wait for knockdown and play GB or other wakeup shenanigans.

Actually, I've been succesful with this combo in arcade mode than in training mode. Anyways, the 5S,j.S,dj.H-D extension does about 15 damage in the combo; so missing it is not a big deal. Sanma tends to fuck up the combo a lot too btw, only in textbook situations (such as the start of the round) he hits it.

Considering the vast amount of combo differences I found per opponent, it might be a good idea to make a combo thread for each character too.

Most people that come from slash should me using mist stance jackhound as they already know what the mist stance does. 4r5: this forum is a REAL mess, basics are scattered, combos are often too detailed to read(like the LONG list of throw combos RedBeard started out with). Basic combos are missing, tension usage is missing, coin usage seems to be missing and we got a real big list of mist setups which all require you to pull shenanigans and lose both tension and coins. Its really bad here.

A few combos on Jam: 5K2S5H 421S,S FRC j.S,dj.S-H-D Ensegna 211 5K2S5H l2SMF j.K-S,dj.S-H-D Ensegna 216 5K2S5H l2SMF j.K-S,dj.S-H KJ FRC j.S,tr.S-H-D Ensegna 235 Is there a good reason to deplete 25% tension for 19 damage? Also, do you know a few tension only mist setups? Most importantly overhead ones outside the corner.

And how would you define character strength? I mean, the tierlist is different from a year ago now, and the characters didn't change, its the people that use them, so it still comes down to the player's skills with each character.

I wanted to say that the may missed a combo, but then I saw the title above the matchvid; coincidentally I immediately see the level drop to where random FB dolphins come out. He did keep the pace up nicely though. Anyways, why did you jump into the air so often? You should have advantage over May on the ground.

5h

Doesn't seem to be on youtube anymore. Miu was the guy that pulled it, though its not really an unblockable, more of a gimmick. What you do is run up to them and then do forward TK VV so you'll crossup when you hit them.

No, this surely would mean that the characters found on D tier are currently not exploited in a manner that their winning chances are better than characters found in higher tiers. The margin for error is made by the players playing the game, this is the third time I'm saying this... Correct, if a character's tier changes the previous tier position was wrong. At the same time, that position was right with the given info that the players had.

No I said it properly, you're reading it backwards. For the current tier list Eddie and Testament are exploited in such a way they have the higher chances of winning, not just exploited the most. And no, that doesn't mean that the characters at the top create the margin for error. The whole fact that the tierlist is a representation of what people do with a certain character means that some people can do things that would change the real character tiering, even if for just a second.

Imo tierlists don't really show which character is stronger but instead show which character being exploited by a certain group of players at a certain moment is stronger. And that creates a margin for error. That error margin in turn is what we're seeing when we see KZO piss on Ogawa, Efute OCVing in SBO finals, no S or A(?) tier making it to the SBO finals while several low tiers did.

6.5-3.5? I don't think the matchup is THAT bad:P It might've been 6.5-3.5 in #R, but in AC it doesn't seem to be the case.