reaVer

23v23 was last year, which was after Ogawa won SBO. Ogawa got beat by KZO which is the same fate Isa suffered with Sol right before(yes, KZO took out two really good players asif they were trash) and afterwards tripped over Potemkin. The 23v23s after Isa took Ogawa's spot and the last one Isa lost in a similar fashion as Ogawa did, except this time it was Ruu if I'm not mistaken.

The current pictures already leave enough room for interpretation on about what went on there XD No more needed:P

If you know its coming perhaps, if you're in the corner and just mashing 2P you can eat l1Ri which goes to dustloop there XD

There's lots of things that can beat OS's 2H outside strings, that's why its barely used outside strings.

its SV AC FRC, not SV AC, SV AC is asking for immediate death. 6H simply is too slow to counter SV AC FRC on reaction. And the OS players are here to help you deal with the matchup and to help understand what they are actually doing against you. Not every OS will SV you out of the blue, some will just to make sure you're paying attention. Not every OS will GB your air attacks or 5K, some will just to make sure you keep your head to it. Its all those kind of things, they don't have to happen but they CAN happen.

What about 5K,2K,2S,2D RC 5H IAD.H, 5H sj.H->D2K->K 5K j.S2K->K, dj.K2K->D ? I remember this being very painful:P 6H is AC FRC SV stuffable, so stick with 2S. As for Hintalove or any OS player, he doesn't play like the next you'd encounter. There's for example several different OSs in Japan and their styles are completely different. The way one OS would deal with the situation will not be the same as the other. Keep that in mind.

You're not reading it wrong, but what you misunderstand is that OS players HAVE to know what the opponent is doing, they can do what any other player can do except better. Next to that, OS's counter or attack attempts aren't one shot attacks like most of the cast carry, that's where the second sentence referred to: he can mis a few guesses without opening himself up like nearly any other character does. And that second half is more important than that first half, he gets more chances to read your defense/offense than you do to read his defense/offense. Dunno about 6P, I should test that. Air combos I've seen from Slayer's 2S did 150ish, which is about the same as when OS is punishing Slayer's crosswire heel with fafnir+combo. Generally you have to keep in mind that there's 2 kind of uppercutters around: 1. hardcore users that know how to mix it up. 2. Desperate users. The second category is easiest to bait and counter, the first will know exactly where you won't be guarding it. Especially against the first category, always be prepared for SV and he won't be using it against you.

When OS gains momentum is the moment his mixups will start hitting, OS players are usually experienced to enough to decipher where you will guard, throw or counter attack. Adding to that, if they guessed wrongly they don't actually lose momentum most of the time since their attacks go to -1 at guard at worst unless they like taking risks they don't have to and then they might get -6 or -10 at worst. And if you think you can escape... OS is often able to employ one attack and then still counter your options. Perhaps a little hard to explain, but you can remember it like this: "OS without momentum = easy, OS with momentum = hard". Fortunately for you OS doesn't gain momentum per se with every attack opportunity he has, he needs a little magic for that. Unfortunately, as much as a random SV is enough to make him gain that momentum. There isn't much of a comparison to make between Slayer's 2S damage and l3SV damage, but its to say its not one of Slayer's impressive combos... Oh and 2S shouldn't CH OS at that point unless OS missed an AC FRC. Slayer's default damage comes from his 5K range, for OS to land the same damage he'd need to have Slayer near the corner and land a fafnir while standing next to Slayer (because it goes into dustloop). Do you understand now? OS's priority are the stuff like 2S, 2D, 5K, j.P, j.H which he carries with him. Being able to use them is another story of course. Though when OS is already attacking Slayer cannot stop him with his own. At the same time OS can tag several attacks with 5K even if 5K would normally whiff(its some bs thingie); as an example Slayer's 6P comes to mind. The 2S thing with all its details is the situational thing OS has, so I kinda start keeping it in mind everywhere I type it. 2S does beat a lot, but some attacks can BS it, which are the ones that either tag it like OS's 5K does to Slayer's 6P or attacks that avoid it. Again, l1Ri is not a punisher, its too stuff, its not a solid counter measure, its about as good as SV and GB. If OS sees your 5K hanging around all of a sudden he can decide to l1Ri and he prefers to do it when you don't expect it. If you recover from 5K and did something other than BBU, DoT, 2K or IAD.H, you will eat l1Ri, guaranteed. Now if you did BBU and he didn't do l1Ri, guess what happens... DoT is usually punishable in that context, 2K is fafnir, 2H able or OS can decide to just run in to his own 2S range and IAD.H means a GB or a j.P in your face. On top of this, if l1Ri was guarded when it wasn't expected(thus not slashbacked), OS got his ticket into close range which is where he is dominant over Slayer. l1Ri against 2H, 2H is simply a noobtactic employed which can anger a lot of people that don't know how to deal with it(fafnir does not hit it for CH guaranteed). With l1Ri it even goes as far that if you are in the corner, and you did 2H and OS did l1Ri, you eat dustloop. In the corner, l1Ri is the other j.H. HE: I don't think 5S could hit OS doing 2S tbh, but again, not sure. 5P is too high to hit OS doing 2S.

No, he hits on 8th with l3SV, framedata startups list the frame it hits on. Wait... are you forgetting the 12 frame invincibility OS has on his storm vipers? Sigh, even the slayers I played didn't forget that... WTF are you babbling? And I mentioned counters, l1Ri stuffs any poke that follows a whiffed poke(ignoring the exceptions mentioned), and its one of OS's free tickets in. I don't really care what you do with what I just said, if you think all this is lulzy and bullshit, I gave you a game OS plays against Slayer and I gave you something that allows you to understand OS on how he deals with Slayer. You can use it, ask for clarifications or ignore it, I don't care. Oh, and FYI, l3SV(and certain l2SV) goes into dustloop which racks up about 200ish or more against Slayer.

If you can IB fafnir you can probably dash it(because you know its coming, which is more or less a requirement for IB outside a string) and that forward dash goes into a lot more hurt than a standalone BBU would ever do. Once OS gets momentum you die, this applies for any character facing OS. You are dreaming, do random shit like 6K and you'll get a one way ticket upwards. And remember, Slayer's attacks are not the quickest of the lot, OS can distinguish between guard, 2K(not uppercuttable) and any other attack, afaik even a mistimed 6[K] will net you a SV against you, unless you're playing an even more unsafe asshole who will gunblaze. Next to that, I've yet to see 2S lead to significant harm I can't inflict myself when waking up with a l3SV. Don't forget the purpose SV serves though, its to make you wait and that makes it his ticket out of okizeme, so its a mixup run by OS, not by you. I do not agree that Slayer has better attacks. Comparing Slayer's pokes with OS's pokes is like comparing something with nothing. OS will not be zoning you unless he's a fool asking for trouble. Generally what OS has over Slayer is priority, Slayer has the best damage over range. If for whatever reason however, OS manages to l3, the damage over range is leveled, so you will most likely be fucked. So there's kinda two choices: 1. try to rush OS down which prevents him from hurting you a lot in one go, but he will most likely beat any attack attempt with his own; or 2. Stay away, which means he'll charge to level 3 and he will be able to inflict the damage he needs on you. Though I do say that OS has to see which one you're doing, OS has to counter your game with either of these choices or run away from you all together(which allows you to chase and lock him down). So if you mixup between offensive and defensive properly OS would fail to comprehend what he should be doing. Counters OS has against Slayer: l1Ri after any whiffed poke from Slayer, OS's free ticket unless Slayer has a DoT ready. The only things that (might) counter this is crosswire heel, BBU and DoT. l1Ri if plain 2H expected, don't be predictable with the 2Hs or you'll eat it. Early GB against DoT and against air attacks. Though for air attacks OS can usually intercept and win, if you're j.K wins he's doing it wrong. If you're trying to counter with j.H or other BS you're begging for GB or 5H. Guarding in air will set you up for an airthrow. Sweep goes under a lot of Slayer's crap: 5K, Mappas, Dandysteps, 5S(c&f), 2S, 6H. Does not win against 2K, 2H and 5H. Save for 2H (and several others), OS's 2S will stuff nearly anything Slayer has given its in range. As for the immediate j.H OS could be using, he's fishing for a counterhit and he won't be converting it anywhere except for in the corner, where it goes to dustloop. Outside OS generally should never use immediate j.H as it is 6P AAable by Slayer. But do not run the risk in the corner, conversion hurts Slayer for Slayer damage no matter what level OS is on.

Sprite links on first page are down. I'd like the sprite animation of OS doing a Storm Viper (l1, l2 and l3).

habits are evil in a fightinggame:(

After 2 knockdowns he comes out with ex danzai? Superjump at the last instance and get your third knockdown would be an option, another would be backdash fafnir and if you feel insecure doing it you can just guard that third time:P

Why are you jump installing in that combo?

Isn't the problem here the fact you leave the ground instantly rather than after a certain while? So if you'd do 23669H you might get coin? EDIT: Nope, seems not at least I got a way to do a guaranteed ensigna though without having to worry about coins coming out XD.

I'm pretty sure 6P doesn't CH Ri unless its already out before Ri is about to hit... So, its just a matter of predictability.

No, their reversal beat it because they actually hit low. Same applies to Chipp iirc, all other uppercuts don't hit low profilers. Against Zappa and Sol you should GB if you want a reversal safe ground oki, be careful for the dp that can come after that GB guard.

This drives back to where I said OS can never get mid or high tier. OS's basic game depends on reading your opponent properly and this by itself is hard. After that comes the fact that Tougeki features the cream of the crop, so its really hard to read players there. The only player that has performed decently with this game is KZO having a total of 3 wins(some Sol in /, Kazuki and Mekomeko) and 3 losses(Sharon, KA2 and someone in the / period). As for what I know about the players speficly: Sanma is really really really good... at performing combos, despite not uppercutting as much as KZO does he does take more risks in an attempt to get a bigger reward. I wouldn't be surprised that Sanma nerved out and his damage dealt was reduced to a minimum. Kaqn simply dies to Eddie, same as 0, the fact its Ogawa in there makes it a sure loss pretty much. 0's weakness... dunno really, he is pretty unsafe in what he does, he ends up in places where he shouldn't be and tends to eat combos at moments he shouldn't have. As for his execution, same thing that applies to sanma applies here. On top of that, none of these except for 0 plays the basic game(0 does, but does not prefer too). All of them try to obtain l3 or l2 before trying anything serious which makes them somewhat predictable: none of these players will rush you down, unless 0 is in the mood to do so. To add that this is a rushdown character just makes things weird. I think OS would be soooo much better if his normals didn't prorate like a bitch and yeah, perhaps other characters do have the same proration or even more on their normals, but on l1 OS's abare is superlow and on l3, any hitconfirm depletes the damage to a minimum or a whiff if you attempt to use 5H.

If someone is sweeping or 6Ping Ri on reaction, the Ri user is doing something SEVERELY wrong. However, it can happen you're playing a moron, get some space in between you when you expect him to throw out Ri and punish him the moment he does. If you as a Millia run away and manage to get away at any given moment, you can forget about groundgame pretty much, because at that moment you'll be facing a l3 OS. From there on any attack that hits you will go to 200 easily courtesy of l3Ri/l3SF/l3TR and Millia's poor defense rating. Oh, and in some cases he can even hitconfirm them too. How often do you see a Millia dumb enough to throw out a plain j.D against OS? Now, with that out of the way, there's 2 styles that OS tends to use when facing Millia depending on whether she rushes down or runs away(actually, these 2 styles apply to a lot of characters... but anyways). Level 1 style is rushdown and counter rushdown, if you're rushing down OS will be stuck at l1 but will proceed to demolish your gameplan(SVs!), if he fails to do that, you win. The only damage threats in this style are GB, fafnir, 6P, CH 2D, CH 2S, CH 5H, CH j.D and CH j.H. Generally however, neither of you will be doing a lot of damage on the other so its hardcore mixups and staying ahead of the opponent that count. If you run away, there's little for the level 1 style OS to demolish so often players try to obtain level 3 and use the abare in that style to hack away at your life bar. So here, the sources of damage are pretty much anything OS hits you with. Though he prefers ground hits over airhits and also knows shenanigans to obtain those groundhits despite you being in the air(its soo easy to forget to FD that l3BRP *HINT HINT HINT*) and if that doesn't work he can still intercept you for free all day pretty much. So generally you should play very carefully and not make converting damage too easy for him(aka, try not to get hit at all).

Oh, now I see, k, will fix it.

From what I recall when a move has a startup of 8 it would hit on the 8th frame and stay active for its active frames. So doing that you'd get 8+13 = 21 and not 8+1+13.

What I do when practicing is programming my character to do the predefined move pattern and then be the "opponent" and try my escapes.

Well, if its Sol, GV does the trick, deals you 230 damage just for trying it. If he got 50% tension he could also go for sweep BR for something near 230 damage too. And if he doesn't feel like doing either of that he can still do 2K-H GV, though in contrast to the other two this one is Ri stuffable. Another option if he has 50% tension is to VV RC combo for 230 damage(and he can do that one anywhere).

Is there a matchup chart around that is current? The last I've seen was from like february 2007...

pfeh, not a lot here really, depends on what level you play on, on level 3 you could do something like 5S2S5H l3BRP with followup. On level 1 you can get 5S2S5H l1Ri at best(because the opponent is crouching). That latter doesn't have to be quite true, but I still have to test the other option.