Sophisticat

Thanks for the write-up Kirby. It's about what I expected, except we get you guy's point of view. Much appreciated. But I'm also getting a feeling of déjà-vu. Saying as much only reiterates what we already know: space is shrinking and becoming more valuable. I've been coming more on Wednesdays and Sundays since getting a bit traumatized from that ultra-packed Thursday meet. So what I'm getting at is... what happens to the future of MTLBB? Foonzo is a super-cool place I think we all appreciate and would like to keep. But let's say even Tuesdays end up as packed as the busiest Thursday... what do we do then? Bit of a rhetorical question, but it needs to be asked. It doesn't diminish our appreciation of the place one bit, though.

More or less. :/ Unless I get a gdlk job that pays baller dollars... #TeamNAH.

Man, this thread. If a character isn't OP, then it must be shit. Guys, anyone can win in this game. It is, imo, the most balanced BB so far. Player skill matters more than tiers in most cases. Case in point, our local Tsubaki has got to be one of the most annoying players to play against. He's hard to read and very good at capitalizing on random hits, and will DP your face if you let him. Just get good with a character and you'll climb your local ranks.

Yep. Thought we were meeting at Peel station, tho? Not like it matters, both are close.

Mileage will vary. CP could be his most fun iterations for you. What makes him less fun for me now is that despite increased burst dmg, it's harder to open people up. Less opportunities to get in dmg. But when you do, you generally hit pretty hard. It's this all-or-nothing profile that is less appealing. He has poor pressure, mixup and AAs as it is. I certainly would give up OD for half-way decent options, here.

OD makes people whine. You can win a match on a random CH from no HP even though the guy is about to perfect you. No one likes that. But putting OD aside, I think most Haku mains feel he's become too one-dimensional in CP. Too much about raw damage output and not enough about just outplaying the other guy and getting wins from good play. It's harder to get in hits, and just not as satisfying to play him overall.

I know Gil and I are going after poutine.

^ OD was fun for the first month. :D ... Then you noticed he lacked just about everything else. D: Not saying I want EX Haks back. That guy was Terminator; efficient, hard to kill, and had an answer to everything. I just want to, you know, have an easier time landing hits. It's not much to ask for.

My argument is that he lost too many options in favour of damage. I agree it needs to be toned down. But it shouldn't be at the expense of his options. He's a one-trick pony as it is. Agito and the combo rate are fine. If you're going to nerf anything without giving him more options, then nerf OD and meter gain. He'll be more in line with the rest of the pack.

I don't think it should affect Haku loop too much. Remember, he has gimp star gain after using specials, so it's not like gain during combos is that significant. I'm more concerned for his general gameplay and approach. Will we now have to spent more time grounded? That would suck.

Airk, did you read my post about Haku a couple pages ago? ------- As for the meter gain change... lol. I was expecting more, honestly. That's a pretty boring, though effective, change. I'm not sure I like how it'll affect his gameplan, though. Depending on how different air gain is to ground, it could lead to reinforcing staying grounded, thus leading to poor matchups getting worse. Off the top of my head, getting stuck in sword spam vs. Nu could be pretty bad, though I don't doubt we'll end up with 8 stars anyway. Anyway, I doubt it'll affect OD combos that much. There's plenty of combos you can do from the ground-only that hit like a truck. So... I fail to see the point of this change? Unless it's not the only one? I was expecting more interesting stuff, but... oh well.

And what looks cooler than j.C -> Agito? Minds are boggled!

Was going to drop out as well, so this works for me. Wednesday would honestly be the best day for me. But nothing stopping you guys from going today either if you want to!

Any idea whether his Pilebunker still has the short range it did during loketests? This move is staple Slayer, so would be sad to see it neutered.

No. Have you played CS1 Mak? Top tier anyone is frustrating to play against. Some are just more honest about shutting you down than others.

You guys already know this, but FB Pile has been a pretty big revelation for me of late -- it's where I now get his really big dmg. Seriously, if you catch them with 6P CH, you can do (corner)... 6P CH -> 6H -> FB PB -> 5H -> UT -> air combo for like 250 dmg. Dandy S FB PB CH out of corner -> BBU -> same combo as above, does like 335 on Ky. Sick! It's almost better than DoT in +R! Anyway, any good uses to FB PB I may be missing? I can't believe I've missed out on such juicy dmg before this!

I've always said Tager is secretly top tier.

Yoooo... Super hype meet tonight! :D Shouts to GG for being a gdlk game. Shouts to DerQ grabbing my burst. Such skill. Much respect. Wow. Much thanks to Kaeru for the shirts. I can now treasure my Tamashii close to the chest. Shouts to Pedro/Kirby/Lvl5/Brice for being gdlk players as always. Kirby dominating at GG came as a pretty big surprise! DerQ, you can send me the list whenever. I'm always down for getting to know more beers. I seriously didn't get in enough matches against everyone tonight. Still need to face Kaeru and Brice among others in GG.

Foonzo's still the best place for meetups considering the old hangouts, imo. I sure as hell won't be going back to the NCBA days. We just need to get that Avengers cab out of the way and we should be ok. That thing doesn't even make any money anyway, from what I've seen. Anyway, heading out to Foonzo. Should be there by 4pm or so.

DP/burst bait is my guess.

Chill, yo. I'll explain. Before I go into it, I want to say all this pertains to his design, and not his placement in tiers. Now, here are his notable nerfs: - 2b, 4b, and 6b are -4 on block. - 3c is -12 on block. - Jab general (across all charas) nerf. - Tick throw general nerf. - Throw now staggers. - Counter nerf, no more 6D. - Hotaru no longer as good, whiffs easily. General idea here is that his close game got nerfed. Now, if you look at his buffs and we generalize a bit, he mostly got dmg and proration buffs across the board, and increased meter gain. Yay. Doing 1+1= close game is nerfed, mid-long-range got buffed. It's harder/riskier to land hits because his close game is unsafe, so your pool of available moves in a given situation is more narrow than it used to be in EX. I hope you see he's now a less flexible character than he used to be? Now, dmg is definitely higher. I don't know who said it's equal to EX, but he should be slapped. Without OD, his dmg would be balanced (in theory) by him being a less flexible character than in EX, with less answers to every situation like before. He's more "one chance man" now in that he only need a couple hits to end the round. The idea I want to go for here is not that he can still win rounds with his insane dmg, but that he's overall a worse character (by design, not tier placement) by being more reliant on one factor (pure dmg) to win him games, as opposed to doing mixups, etc. His character design now revolves around OD. It's just so strong that it wins him games on its own. I don't think it's what any of us Haku players had in mind for him, or what we want him to be. As I mentioned earlier, not only is this bad design, but it's also a pretty bad R/R tradeoff. But I've written enough here, so I'll stop.

This. Haku having big burst dmg is a character design, and that's fine. Counters are fine. OD, however, isn't and should def. be nerfed. Biggest prob with this iteration is he traded having options for more dmg. Result is it's harder to land hits, but when you do, it's almost OHKO. Bad design, imo. Terrible return/risk to contend with in normal times, it's just OD is so strong it makes up for this deficiency. Also, Mugen -> 6c FC -> full Shippu = 8k. 2hits. Best combo ever.

Yeah, mostly. You can rush some characters, but not all. If they respect you too much, then you can go to town. If they're playing smart RTSD, might be good to switch to defensive... so it depends. But overall, I suppose I go for slightly more defensive characters who can pack a punch. So I'll pick Defensive.

Dramaaaaaa

You got really good at using... 2k, was it? to stuff almost every move I have, lol. Was tough to get in, 2k beat even reaction 2H because it didn't come out fast enough. Going to have to rethink my approach a bit. Your spacing got REALLY GOOD with Ky! No street parking between 1 and 7am on MTL streets between Nov and April 1st for snow removal purposes.