zeth07

Typically it was used in the corner. It should beat all rolls, no tech, quick tech, and if they emergency tech it could meaty and it is largely plus on block which is more of an incentive to do it. However I have not tested it thoroughly. EDIT: So I tested it a little bit and it's definitely a timing/spacing thing in regards to forward roll. There were times that the forward roll could get them out, other times it would catch them but it'd be hard to combo after. When doing j.D knockdown for example I would have to do a 7 jump j.D then do it and they'd roll into it, but I don't know who'd be ballsy enough to roll forward. It should catch backrolls no matter what though.

Nice work and thanks for taking the time to post all the info Ice Cube. I'm going to add this to the Combo thread tech section and add it to the Strategy Guide thread so it doesn't get lost in here.

This is all more or less the "problem" with Azrael's gameplay now, and it doesn't apply to just Kokonoe. For his pressure, he really only gets 1, maybe 2, "mix-up" chances before being back to a "neutral" situation. Growler can also be counter-productive in certain match-ups from a basic match-up standpoint. Yea it did some damage and got them off you, but it also puts the opponent in the exact situation Azrael does not want to be in. This is even worse if you hit them out of the air and it is a non-CH, because some characters can tech then IMMEDIATELY reapply pressure. Tao even gets to punish Azrael in this case for a huge combo. So just in general a lot of what you're talking about is true in other match-ups as well and could just be considered part of his character flaws.

My icon is Bang and my lobby character is Azrael. I try to play both equally, lol.

Seems to be about 17 in-game seconds. Added a note in the proper sections.

As I've said for the last few times, stuff like this belongs in the match-up forums. They are there for a reason. Post will be moved.

They aren't "dead". And even if they are, that's no reason to post match-up specific stuff here because if you post them where they belong they should generate discussion........thus not be "dead". Posts will be moved/edited as needed.

I don't think we're playing the same game.

http://youtu.be/WZYwMxtm3C8 Can be a problem on netplay if you aren't doing proper inputs.

Please ask stuff like this in the match-up threads as mentioned. It helps generate actual specific character match-up discussion more. Posts will be moved.

5BB should be a non-issue on Jin at least. Whether or not you should omit them is up to you since it is an issue at max range but you might not always land it at max range, so it would just be a matter of seeing the distance and confirming or not. Also if they are crouching it should be a non-issue as well, so you shouldn't ignore them entirely. Also considering going into 3C is the usual crouch confirm you can always keep it in mind when doing the combos.

Thanks for testing stuff out.

For anyone who has Kokonoe, please test any important parts of combos to let us know what works and what doesn't. I have no interest in buying her so I'll only be able to do it on the off chance I play against one on netplay. I did get to play one in only about 2 matches last night and it seemed at one point one of my BnBs whiffed on her when it didn't seem like it should have (against any other character). I want to say it was TCL related but can't remember, maybe it was just my own error or some other character-specific thing that applies to other characters. Any info would be appreciated for all of us.

I pretty much agree with what Airk is saying, which is why I do not like the lobby system and the novelty of it has worn off for me. I'm only trying to play people with decent connections, so what usually happens is I'll see one person on the cab with a decent connection but their opponent has a 0 or 1, so I'm not trying to play them and move on. Then I actually find a cab with two people who I have a decent connection to and stand there waiting (not even able to watch the match), then when it's over the loser just jumps back on, so I just wasted my time doing literally nothing while trying to play the game. Occasionally people will actually take turns but from my experience it is a crapshoot, which is why I prefer player matches.

Take stuff like this to the match-up threads.

No, they each "apply" those weakpoints. I used them as examples to show that each combo was used for a different reason.

That's why it's better to just understand the combo theory since you'll just know the combos work instead of going through all the combos individually. The combo lists are just there as "facts" I'll say, not to mention the video examples. Just to give an example, look at the regular Back Throw combos: #1 Back Throw > TC > 236D = 3100+ #2 Back Throw > TCL > 3D = 2967 #3 Back Throw > TCL > IAD j.A > j.B > 5B > hj.Aerial = 3516 #1 = Applies upper weakpoint, is easy, does the 2nd highest damage of the three. #2 = Applies lower weakpoint, is easy, does the lowest damage. #2 = Can apply any weakpoint, is harder than the others, does the most damage. (ignoring any character specifics) So starting out a player might only want to do #1 or #2, and because they are easy they would be considered BnBs. But #3 is clearly the best combo to do, so for a "skilled player" #3 would absolutely be the combo to know. That would be an advanced BnB, since it clearly is worth the little bit of extra difficulty so a skilled player should have it down. Of course there could be character specifics involved which makes it even more "advanced" and might remove it as a "BnB", so if it doesn't work it means you have to fall back on one of the others.

It's because there are different variables people may want to consider or have to consider. If one combo only does 100 more damage than another combo but is 10 times harder then the player might not choose to do that advanced one and just do a "BnB". The other thing to consider is any character specifics, some combos might not even work on certain characters (see the character specific section) so you would need a different combo route. Then you have different starters and need to adjust your combos taking that into consideration. And other things like meter, positioning, and weakpoints. That is why there are the "Basic Combos" which will just let you get by, the "Combo Theory" section to give you a general idea of what you can do instead of specifics, and then the combo lists when you just want to see the notation, immediate differences and test/compare them. So a "skilled player" would probably want to know the "best" or most optimal combos and knowing combo theory can give them the answer but exact combos let the players see what exactly can be done already.

The section that says "Basic Combos".

- 5B RA at 16F~ However, the RA timing is rather slow for all moves. That is a gatling. Just visually see 5B hit then do 2C. It feels easier on crouching chars because there is extra hitstun.

Do it as soon as you see him touch the ground. Please read the appropriate threads before asking questions. This question is answered in the FAQ section, and the title of that thread says "(Read Here First Before Asking Questions!)".

That one was actually pretty hard for me at first too. The one thing I noticed was that you can't just wing it for the IAD, doing a literal IAD will make it easier or is necessary. Like some combos you could do 8>66 really quickly for an "IAD" and it'll work, but it seems like you need to do the correct input of "96". Also like you mentioned you need to land the j.C "late" so that you are landing almost immediately after to go into Hornet. So hit the 6A early so that you catch them high in the air and they'll bounce higher, do an immediate and proper IAD, and hopefully the j.C will hit low to the ground. It might also help to watch the combo in slow motion which you can do by pressing the playback button after you go to view it (in challenge mode).

So you think this will be easier to understand out of context..... 5B > 5C > [cODlv9] > 214A > 214D> 5C > jc. > ... (ID) than this, [HP<89%] 5B > 5C > cOD > 214A > 214D> 5C > jc. > ... (ID) Who's to say the person isn't going to forget the proper OD "level" corresponding to the HP range when posting the combo elsewhere? That argument works both ways. And are you going to assume everyone knows the OD level ranges and their related HP value ranges when posted elsewhere?

Post #49 = Combo notation posted in the combo thread within the basic combos at the beginning or any of the related combos. Post #50 = Post #51 = = Which is what the combo notation is. Post #52 = = Was literally just answered............ Post #55 = Each combo has the video example linked and the basic combo section has a video linked before it. Post #56 = = Which is what the combo notation is. Post #71 = Same as above. Post #72 = Which is what the combo notation is and what Valiant Charger says in the move description for how to do the move itself. --- Under other circumstances that could be true, but in the case of the 5C loop the combo notation is quite literally exactly what needs to be done and is very simple. Which is why everyone's response on how to do it is just what the notation says because it can't be explained any easier lol. Your own post kinda gave the answer, holding 6 gives 6C, but you aren't supposed to be holding 6 because 5C is when the stick is neutral. So press 6 > press 5C, repeat. As you can see it is pretty annoying getting the same question and having to answer it multiple times, particularly when they are asked within a few posts of each other, more so when the answer is what the combo says to do anyway. Since it was asked multiple times it somehow became a "frequently asked question", so now it is in the thread as needed. Hopefully everyone understands now, lol.

I think it would be easier to just list the combos in sections based on the percents that way you don't have to put a bunch of "cOD7" within all the combos of that percent range (and it's confusing). So in the combo it'll just be "OD" or cOD and when looking it is easy enough to understand the HP range as listed. It would also mean you can keep the ranges more simplified until people start actually doing some crazy min/maxing combos for there to be a difference between close health ranges. I'd recommend just starting out the listings with the same sections like the arcade, Green = 100%-50%, Yellow/Orange = 49%-10%, Red = 9%-1%. Then if very specific OD combos happen you can just put that percentage range in-between the other ranges OR just on that one specific combo. Any Range [100%-51% HP] [50%] 5BB > OD > 2B > TCL > OD BHS = 4200+ [50%] Back Throw > TCL > OD > OD BHS = 4054 [75%][uW] 5B > 2C > 6D > 6A > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > f.dash > 5C > TCL > OD > OD BHS = 6167 [59%-51% HP] 5B > 2C > 6D > 6A > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > f.dash > 5C > TCL > OD > OD BHS = 6167 or [HP<59%] 5B > 2C > 6D > 6A > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > f.dash > 5C > TCL > OD > OD BHS = 6167 [50%-11% HP] [10%-1% HP] For Azrael I made a post in the combo thread to give Overdrive combos their own section since it is a relatively advanced mechanic and not necessarily combos people will choose to do. The way I look at it is you don't have to type the OD range multiple times if you have multiple combos for that range, and specific ranges will be rare so it isn't so bad to type them out for a specific combo. Otherwise you would be adding another variable and thing people need to know, they'd have to know this percent = this level = this combo, instead of just this percent = this combo.