zeth07

Discussion about the Amane match-up goes here. First post may be edited as important information arises. If any information seems wrong please feel free to correct it, hopefully with actual proof / examples. Anyone is free to post info as long as it is constructive and helps with the discussion of the match-up. One of the major points of Amane is that he can do insane chip damage or barrier draining. A lot of Amane's attacks have good range, in addition to his mobility options the fight comes down to chasing Amane down while trying to get in to avoid his ranged attacks and chip damage. Amane does not have a meterless reversal, be aggressive after knockdowns. Azrael can use Growler Field (214B) to absorb Amane's drill oki if they go for it and gain multiple Phalanx Cannons (236B). Use any Phalanx Cannons (236B) wisely. Don't use it immediately after getting it because it is obvious, like Tager players itching to use Spark Bolt. Since Amane has a lot of long range attacks you can use it to catch him off guard or even punish them on reaction (presumably) and combo into Black Hawk Stinger. Notable Matches: Tahichi (AZ) vs. Hina (AM) FT10 Amane vs. Dogura (AZ)

Heavy Punish Combos: Collapsed: ] [b: Go to moves that give CH/FC punishes on REGULAR block: Litchi 623D = 5C Tsubaki 623C/D or 236236D = 5C Amane 632146C = 5C Arakune 236236D = 5C (3D works but following up with 6A doesn't if not in corner) Bang 2363214C = 5C/3D* (3D works but there's a glitch where he can go through Azrael when he tries to 3D after it in some cases.) Jin / Makoto / Mu / Ragna 623C = 3D (for Makoto 5C would be easier given the nature of her DP) Azrael 236B or 214214D or AH = 3D Rachel 2C = 3D (will do more later) Anywhere: No Weakpoints: (CH) 5D > 2B > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > 6A > IAD j.C > land > j.C > jc j.D = 4356 (Doesn't work on LI / RC / PL / NU if not in corner) (CH) 6D > 5C > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > 6A > IAD j.C > land > j.C > jc j.D = 4711 (CH) 2D > 2B > TCL > 3D > 5B > sjB jA jC > jc jD = 3823 (CH) 3D > TCL > 3D > 5B > sjB jA jC > jc jD = 4533 (CH) 3D > 6A > 3D > 2B > TCL > 5B > 2C > 5B > Aerial = 5472 (Doesn't work on TG, maybe others?) (CH) 3D > 6A > 3D > walk forward 5C > TCL > 5B > 2C > 5B > Aerial = 5618 (Doesn't work on TG, maybe others?) [uW] (FC) 5C > 236D > {6>5C}*5 > TCL > 5A > 5B > 3C > 6A > 2C > 6D = 5383 Corner: (CH) 3D > TC > 214D > 8 > j.C*3 > j.2C > 5B > 2C > 5B > Aerial = 4750 Tech (or No Tech) Punishes / Situations: Collapsed: ] [b: Typical Pick-up (Blue Beat) Combo After "Knockdown": -Pick-up 2A > 5A > j.A > (j.B) > j.C > jc j.2D or j.D = Can add the other weakpoint depending on initial combo. Usage Examples: (5B)B counter hit > 5B > j.B > j.C > jc j.D = 2191 DM >>> After knockdown, if they don't immediately tech >> pick-up 2A > 5A > j.A > j.C > jc j.2D = 2996 DM / Both Weakpoints 6D hit w/ NO weakpoint applied currently, if they don't immediately tech >> pick-up 2A > 5A > j.A > j.C > jc j.2D = 2129 DM / Both Weakpoints 5BB > TCL > RC > 5B > j.B > j.C > jc j.D = 3413 DM >>> pick-up 2A > 5A > j.A > j.C > jc j.D (killed) = 3972 DM j.2C (typically you get no combo after) > pick-up 2A > 5A > j.A > j.B > j.C > jc j.D = ~2000DM / Weakpoint Would have to test just how far into the proration of a combo this would still work. If they tech immediately, 2A > 5A > j.A will whiff, but as you are in the air above them and see this you can j.B which will be in the process of crossing them up. I'm sure this isn't a universal option that beats all the tech options but it is probably effective against someone who likes to delay tech at least because even if they start to neutral tech you are still in a pretty good situation outside of reversals. I'm assuming if they backdash, j.B has a long enough each that it might catch them. This option �loses� to immediate back rolls. Pick-up After 3C hit w/ no tech/"dropped combo": 3C hit (UW applied), they didn't tech as he dropped the 22C part >> 22C > 5B > j.B > j.C > jc j.D > TCL > 5A > j.A > j.C > j.D = 3456 DM He still did not tech immediately after that, so I'm not sure if you could pick up and continue a combo a little further or if the proration would already be too strong that they would be able to immediately tech the potential extra blue beat combo. More In-Depth Tech Punishes from Ice Cube: Collapsed: ]

Any Range [100%-51% HP] [50%] 5BB > OD > 2B > TCL > OD BHS = 4200+ [50%] Back Throw > TCL > OD > OD BHS = 4054 [50%][uW] CT > OD > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 623C > 3C > 6A > TCL > BHS = 6087 [<90% HP][50%][uW] 5B > 5BB > ODc > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > 6A > TCL > BHS = 6713 [<90% HP][50%][uW] 5B > 5BB > ODc > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 623C > 3C > TCL > BHS = 6737 [<90% HP][50%][uW] 5B ODc 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6A > 5B > TCL > 5B > BHS = 6858 [<90% HP][50%][uW] 5B ODc 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > 6A > 5C > TCL > BHS = 7023 [<90% HP][50%][uW] 5B ODc 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 623C > 3C > 5C > TCL > BHS = 7045 [<90% HP][50%][uW] FC 5C > ODc > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 3C > 6A > 5C > TCL > 5B > BHS = 7401 [75%][uW] 5B > 2C > 6D > 6A > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > f.dash > 5C > TCL > OD > OD BHS = 6167 [<80% HP][100%][uW]5BB > TCL > RC > IAD j.C > OD > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6 > 5C}*5 > 6A > 3C > BHS = 6621 [50%-11% HP] [uW][50%] Anti-Air 5B > jc OD> 5B > j.BC> j.D> 6D > 5D> 236D > (6> 5C>)*4> 6 > 3C> 6A> BHS = ~6800 [bOTH][50%] AA 5B > jc OD> 5B > j.BC> j.2D> 3D > 5D> 2C > 6D > 236D > (6> 5C>)*4> 6 > 3C> 6A> BHS = ~7200 [10%-1% HP] Mid-Screen [100%-51% HP] 5BB > OD > j.A > j.A > j.C > 3C > 22C > 5B > TCL > 2C > 5B > hj.C > jc j.D = 3551 (Big Characters Only?) 3C > 22C > 5A > 5B > hj.C > j.D > OD > j.A > 5A > j.B > j.C > jc j.D > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 6D = 3444? [50%][LW] 5BB > OD > 2C > 3D > 6A > fdc TCL > 5B > j.B > j.C > j.2D > BHS = 5782 [50%][LW] 5BB > OD > 2C > 3D > 214D > 8 > {j.C}*3 > j.2C > TCL > BHS = 5894 [100%][uW] 5C > 236A > RC > 6A > 5B > hj.C > j.D > OD > falling j.B > 5B > hj.C > j.D > 236D > 6 > 6A > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 3C > 22C > BHS = 7316? [100%][uW] Forward Throw > 214D > RC > OD > 3D > 5D > 2C > 6D > 236D > {6>5C}*3 > 6 > 2D > BHS = 6073 [100%][LW] Forward Throw > 236D > RC > OD > 3D > 6D > 5D > 214D > 8 > {j.C}*2 > j.D > falling j.2D > BHS = 6101? [50%-11% HP] [50%][uW] 5BB > OD > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*3 > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > jc j.D > 3C > 6A > BHS = 6648 [75%][uW] Back Throw > CT > OD > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > OD BHS = 6605 [100%][uW] TCL > RC > IAD j.C > OD > 5B > hj.B > j.C > jc j.D > 5D > 2C > 6D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C/6A > OD BHS = 7248 [10%-1% HP] Near Corner [100%-51% HP] [75%][bOTH] 5BB > OD > 2C > 3D > CT > 236D > 6 > 5C > 6 > 6C > j.C > 5B > 623C > 3C > 6A > 2D > BHS = 6810 [50%-11% HP] [*][75%][bOTH] 5BB > OD > 2C > 3D > CT > 236D > 6 > 5C 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 3C > 6A > 6D > 2D > BHS = 7116 [10%-1% HP] Corner [100%-51% HP] [*][25%][uW] 5BB > OD > 2C > 6D > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > 214D > 5B > TC > 236D > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 5D = 5932 [*][50%][uW] 5BB > OD > 2C > 6D > TC > 236D > 6 > 5C > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 3C > 6A > BHS = 6040 [*][50%][uW] 236D > 6 > 6A > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 5C > TCL > 5B > 2C > 3C > 22C > 5B > BHS = 6000+ [*][50%][uW] Forward Throw > OD > TCL > 5B > 2C > 6D > BHS = 4679? (only reason I see to do this instead of the below combo is so they can't burst earlier) [*][50%][uW] Forward Throw > 236D > {6>5C}*2 > 6 > 6B > 6 > 623C > 6 > 3C > OD > 5B > OD BHS = 5226? [*][50%][bOTH] 5BB > OD > 5B > 2C > 3D > 6A > 2D > 2B > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 >3C > BHS = 6162 [*][75%][uW] Forward Throw > CT > OD > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > BHS = 6161 [*][75%][LW] 5BB > OD > 5B > 2C > 3D > CT > 6A > 2D > 2B > TCL > BHS = 5977 [*][75%][bOTH] 5B > 2C > 3D > CT > 6A > reverse 5C > TC > 236D > 6 > 6C > 6 > 3C > 22C > BHS [*][75%][bOTH] 5BB > OD > 5B > 2C > 3D > CT > 6A > 2D > 2B > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > BHS = 6693 [*][100%][bOTH] 6A > 5B > j.B > j.C > j.2D > RC > OD > falling j.C > hj.B > j.C > jc j.D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > BHS [*][100%][bOTH] 6A > 5B > j.B > j.C > j.2D > RC > OD > falling j.C > hj.B > j.C > jc j.D > 2C > 6D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > BHS [*][<60% HP][50%][uW]5BB > OD > 5B > 2C > 6D > 5B > Aerial > TC > 236D > {6 > 5C}*5 > 6A > [3C > BHS] or [sCP] = 6127 / 5127 [50%-11% HP] [*][50%][uW] 5BB > OD > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > 6 > 5C > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 3C > 6A > BHS = 6465 [*][75%][uW] 5BB > OD > 5B > 2C > 6D > 5D > CT > 236D > 6 > 5C > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 3C > 6A > BHS = 6830 [*][100%][uW] TCL > RC > IAD j.C > OD > 5B > Aerial > 5D > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 6A > 3C > OD BHS = 7014 [*][100%][bOTH] OD > (5C) > BHS > RC > 3D > 2D > 2C > 6D > 5D > 236D > {6>5C*4} > 214D > j.C*2 > j.D > j.2D = 8146 / (9416 if they didn't block 5C) [10%-1% HP] [*][50%][LW] 5BB > OD > 5B > 2C > 3D > 6A > 2D > 2B > TC > 214D > 8 > {j.C}*3 > j.2D > OD BHS = 6314 (Doesn't Work On HZ/LI?) [*][75%][uW] 5BB > OD > 5B > 2C > 6D > 5D > CT > 236D > {6>5C}*3 > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > j.D > BHS = 6970

It only works with upper weakpoint, as described in the move descriptions in the character overview thread and the wiki. UNB means unblockable. I'm guessing you are looking at it in reference to Hornet and Valiant, which means the guard points of those moves cannot work against unblockable attacks.

Thanks for all the info Kinkuli, that's kinda interesting and weird lol.

These are combos that give [bOTH] Weakpoints within the same combo. Any Range Forward Throw > 6A > IAD j.C > 214D > 5A > TC > 236D = 3349 [uW] 3C > 22C > 5B > 2C > 6D > 236D > 5A > j.A > j.C > jc j.2D = 3214 [uW] 236D > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 6B > 6 > 214D > 5A > 5B > 2C > 3C > 6A > 5D = 4025 [uW] Forward Throw > 5D > 236D > 5A > TCL > 3D = 3654 [50%] 5BB > TCL > RC > IAD j.C > 214D > 5A > j.A > Aerial [50%] 5BB > TCL > RC > IAD j.C > 214D > 5A > 5B > hj.Aerial [50%]Back Throw > TC > 214D > RC > IAD > j.C > hj. Aerial = 3254 [50%][uW] 5B > 2C > 6D > walk forward slightly 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 5D > 236D > 5B > TCL > 3D = 5077 [50%][uW] 6D > 5B > hj.C > j.D > RC > falling j.C > 6A > IAD j.C > 5D > 236D > 5B > TCL > 3D = 5368 Mid-Screen Forward Throw > 6A > IAD j.C > 214D > 5A > TCL > 2C > 6D = 3797 [uW] 3C > 22C > 5B > 2C > 6D > 236D > 5A > TCL > 3D = 3522 [uW] 236D > {6>5C}*3 > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 214D > 5A > j.A > j.B > j.C > jc j.D = 4121 [uW] 236D > {6>5C}*3 > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 214D > 5A > 5B > 2C > 3C > 6A > 5D = 4384 [bOTH] 5B > 2C > 3D > 5D > 236D > 5A > TCL > 3D = 4532 [25%][uW] 5B > 2C > 6D > 6A > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > 214D > 5B > j.A > j.B > j.C > j.D = 4700?+ [25%][LW] 5B > 2C > 3D > CT > 6A > IAD j.C > 214D > 5A > j.A > j.B > j.C > jc j.D = 4909 [25%][LW] 214D > {j.C}*2 > j.2C > CT > 236D > 5A > TCL > 3D [25%][bOTH] 5B > 2C > 3D > CT > 6A > IAD j.C > 214D > 5A > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 5D = 5661 [25%][bOTH] 5B > 2C > 3D > 6A > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > 214D > 5B > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6D = 5415 [50%][uW] TCL > IAD j.C > 6A > IAD j.C > 5D > 214D > 5B > Aerial = 4958 [50%][LW] 5B > 2C > 3D > walk forward slightly 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 6D > 236D > 5B > TCL > 3D = 5196 [50%][LW] 2D > 5A > 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 6D > 236D > 5B > TCL > 3D = 3928? [50%][bOTH] 5B > 2C > 6D > 236D > RC > 214D > 8 > {j.C}*2 > j.2C > TCL > 3D [50%][bOTH] 5B > 2C > 3D > 214D > RC > slight walk forward > 5C > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 3C > 6A > 5D Near Corner Corner [*][uW] 5B > 2C > 6D > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > 214D > 5B > Aerial = 4408 [*][uW] 3C > 2B > TC > 236D > 6 > 6C > j.C > 6 > 6B > 214D > 5B > 2C > 6D = 3908 = RG, JI, AR, TG, LI, HZ, RE, AM, BU, AZ [*][uW] 236D > 6 > 5C > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 214D > 5A > 5BB > 5D = 3723 [*][uW] Forward Throw > 5D > 214D > 5A > j.A > Aerial = 3350 [*][LW] 3D > 6A > 5B > TCL > 5B > 2C > 6B > Aerial = 5153 [*][bOTH] 2D > 2B > TC > 236D > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 6 > 6B > 6 > 214D > 5B > 2C > 6D = 4032 = RG, JI, AR, TG, LI, HZ, RE, AM, BU, AZ [*][25%] TCL > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > 214D > 5B > 2C > 5B > Aerial = 4589 [*][25%][bOTH] 5B > 2C > 3D > IAD j.A > j.C > CT > 214D > 5B > TC > 236D > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 6 > 623C > 5D = 5447 [*][50%] 5B > 2C > 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 214D > 5A > TC > 236D > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 6 > 6B > 6 > 623C > 3C > 5D = 4367 [*][50%][uW] 5C > 236A > RC > 236D > 6 > 5C > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 5B > 214D > 5A > 5B > 2C > 6D [*][50%][uW] 5D > 2C > 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 214D > 5A > TC > 236D > 6 > 6C > 6 > j.C > 6 > 6B > 6 > 623C > 3C > 5D = 4526 [*][50%][uW] 6D > 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 214D > 5A > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 6 > 6A > 3C > 5D = 5001 [*][50%][LW] 2D > 5B > 2C > 5B > j.C > j.D > RC > j.C > 214D > 5A > TC > 236D > {6>5C}*4 > 3C > 5D = 4133

Cool, let us know if you decide to go there. Although there's only a few more days left before console import so we'll know sooner rather than later lol.

3D ground-bounce isn't "Downed" though. Just going by the frame data the moves have specific hitstun states, like G = Ground Slam but D = Hard Knockdown / Downed (3C does this). So 3D weakpoint can be either B for Ground Bounce or GB for Ground Slam>Ground Bounce if you're hitting them out of the air (like in combos). So unless 22C doesn't go straight by definition of "downed", 3D shouldn't count for 22C. 2D weakpoint on the other hand does cause a downed state, so I'm guessing you could technically link 22C after it just as an example. I'm still guessing it is 623C because there's plenty of time to link it after 6A wall bounce anyway.

Tahichi is one of the few people to actually do this, I'm going to guess that's who it was since he was on the winning team of the tournament. I'm guessing it was 623C, 22C is only supposed to work on a "downed" opponent. I think it gets a little weird with valiant combos though. But I'm obviously not 100% sure. Which is why I'm trying to go back through the combo thread since there's a lot of sentinel dumps in valiant combos and it's hard to know which one it is otherwise, and I'm sure some inputs should be 623C instead of 22C.

No they aren't.

Just fyi, anyone can edit the wiki. There's an announcement for it posted at the top of the forums, although it's been that way for a while even: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/announcement.php?f=69&a=86

Depending on what the combo into rekkas was actually from, the 3D is supposed to combo. The other thing to consider is that if the opponent decides to "no tech" to avoid Azrael's mixup, landing 3D means he usually just got the other weakpoint. Of course getting both weakpoints leads to huge damage or the unblockable. In the "Azrael Shenanigans" video in the video thread.

It makes it really hard to tell when doing things like Bang's IAD j.4C combos. For starters even doing it requires you to know you're within a certain range of the corner, otherwise you won't get the wallbounce from j.623B. Then you have to determine at what range it is to know whether you can do d.5C or d.6D which is already hard enough when you do know where the corner is since it is still a timing vs. distance/height thing. Add to the fact that you're doing an IAD yourself which is covering a lot of distance quickly and almost in the exact same moment your opponent is going flying across the screen which you need to follow up and know what button you can press. It is very easy to lose track of where exactly you are in relation to the corner. So yea, stop picking training stage people, unless you just feel like being a scumbag just to do it. (to no one in particular)

He couldn't because the weakpoint wasn't applied at the start. If he didn't RC it all he would've got was the knockdown. He was smart enough to RC after the weakpoint hit and went into 5A>TC which missed, when he probably could have just done 5A>5B>Aerial>More stuff. I'm guessing the 5A>TC whiffed just because of the timing and hitboxes, he probably needed to delay it slightly. More than likely going into an aerial alone would've killed since weakpoint j.D does good damage by itself. But going even further since he just applied the weakpoint he could've extended the combo after the j.D or went right into BHS after it if he needed/wanted to. Him having the presence of mind to RC into that combo was really good, but then trying to do that part of a combo when he probably could've kept it simple is kinda weird. I guess he was just trying to do a cool looking combo to kill.

Zekuso is the same way (mains Valkenhayn). At one point he was #1 Azrael when at the time we didn't even see/have any videos of him using Azrael.

It's throwable and due to the nature of it almost works against him in some match-ups considering the above. Sure you might get the opponent off you and deal some damage if it hits, but when that opponent is Mu/etc. and now she's fullscreen and you have to run the gauntlet to get to her again, it's not exactly the best thing in the world compared to other reversals. BUT at least it's something.

Youtube Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk-r34AGz8nzzJonDnd0HWKN5yXUVSuce More parts are apparently coming eventually.

OEE's combos are ridiculous. If you want to style on someone, any of those combos would do the trick. Just as long as you somehow manage to get those exact stipulations lol, good luck with that though.

Azrael - "Both Weakpoints" Combo Compilation - By けーご http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21533836 http://youtu.be/kX6CuxKA-Dc

Bang can't really mash anything and/or get away with it so I wouldn't think they're similar in that regard. I still play every once in a while.

Even if it doesn't work she can still keep going, so half the time that doesn't even matter lol.

Don't lie, they still throw them out all the time.

No problem. Hopefully the forums at least help someone with playing Azrael.

I don't know what game you're playing but unless you are playing the game "hardcore" there WILL be a skill gap regardless if you import or not. There will always be someone better or who plays way more than you can even imagine so you shouldn't feel obligated to import for that reason. Ex. I've played less than 2000 matches in Extend I think, some might say that's a lot, then you realize some of the people I play against have played over 8000 matches. Even if I import, there's ZERO chance I'll ever "keep up" with those players. Just seems silly to look at it that way.

You input it lol. I mean it's kinda hard to actually get Daifunka when you didn't mean to do it because that input is pretty obnoxious compared to say 236236. So you must've walked forward with the 236 motion, then decided to do C Bumper and it came out. You had to buffer the motion somewhere. It would've made more sense if you were actually trying to Daifunka and messed up and got C Bumper instead, but even that I can't say has happened to me. Getting D Bumper when messing up Astral would make sense too. The other way around is kinda weird.