zeth07

2363214C

Do whatever combo keeps them in the corner and is easy for you to do 100% of the time (lag considered).

Well the other thing about it is that he has other normal lows besides 2D/3D, but his only normal overheads are 5D/6D. I just think Valiant is the "go to" thing which is why you always see them end aerials with j.D instead of j.2D if nothing is applied, there's just no doubt about that because of the damage + corner carry from it. I'd look at the 3Ds after TCL as a bonus more than anything, which does help his game out in the same way it does for adding weakpoints if they no tech. The reward from upper weakpoint doesn't diminish because you are more or less forcing a burst out of them OR you're getting a lot in return if they don't. Plus the exact same thing can be said with any other weakpoint combo so it just goes back to Valiant being > Hornet no matter what. I'm not even sure what we're debating anymore but yea lol.

I would assume in the instances of those things happening you would be expecting them to happen as well and can react appropriately so while it might not be strictly reaction, it is within reason to "react" to them within context. At least compared to say 3C>RC>j.A or Rachel's IOH non-sense or Valkenhayn's wolf form mixup. And while it seems silly to "argue" about whether or not teleport mixup is good when we haven't even touched the game, I'll just say that it sure seems to work A LOT against the Japanese players who have been playing the game for months and have played thousands of matches. If it wasn't good in some way we sure wouldn't be seeing it as much as we do, but I'm pretty sure we already had this conversation.

The tech window for throws is 13 frames and people can react to that, so 21f isn't all that bad (Bang's 5C is 18f). If anything just the fact that Azrael's teleport mixup exists makes it harder to anticipate any other mixup anyway. You also have to consider the fact that most of the time they only have upper weakpoint applied so there's more incentive to go for 5D/6D than 2D/3D, or just landing 5D/6D and getting the upper weakpoint is better than lower weakpoint. While 3D is even slower than 5D as well but at least it is slightly ambiguous looking. Not that Azrael players should never use those things, it's just more useful to do the others.

I would imagine because it is much easier to just block low > react to overhead, than it is to actually completely change the direction on reaction which in the case of Azrael's mixup isn't really plausible most of the time since you won't know if he's going to even do it or not. Extra Example: Bang FRKZ mixup, nobody ever blocks it, much like Azrael's teleport mixups people will usually just hit you out of it if anything.

This is worth mentioning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcBR7ftBnvo&feature=youtu.be&t=12m57s Hazama throws Azrael out of Growler startup. The mook had Growler listed as being full invul. from frames 1-11, if this was true there's no reason for this to happen. So this is an apparent mook error, which means Growler is probably Head, Body, Foot invul. instead but can be thrown out of it. This takes Growler down a peg as a reversal and is definitely worth noting. I'll be making changes in the threads/wiki as needed to reflect this at some point.

I use an octagonal gate if you want to count that even though it isn't an actual "circle gate". It has the same engage zones practically. When I was first using stick I thought square gate felt weird and tried octo gate and it seemed better for me, but I'm pretty sure it was just because I wasn't used to stick that made me mess up on the square gate. Either way I've stuck with octo gate anyway.

Yep, I still play every once in a while.

I'll play you guys sometime if you want, connection to NC should be alright. Add me, zeth07, or I'll try to add you two next time I'm online.

Pretty sure it only applies with OD+2D, because it isn't like the other moves get their buff when you have them without OD so it wouldn't make sense for 2D. The buff Bang gets for gaining seals outside of OD is that if you have a seal any further hits of it deal x1.2 damage, but if you gain all 4 the hits will do x1.5 damage.

I've played plenty of matches where there was a "lag spike" and then it went back to normal. In fact I actually hate when that happens more so than when someone just has a natural delay because at least then I know it's just "lag" and not to play them.

You can't put your PS3 into DMZ mode? It's not hard to do, and it should give you Nat Type 2.

This is more or less how I see it as well. By your own logic people have to be interested in the game to play it, well those "celebs" are what can get people interested in the game. Even if people don't play the game, they can still be interested in it for those exact reasons, and that can cause growth (whether it is in viewers / sales / tournament players). There are players who don't even like the games they play, so in that sense they'll play even if they AREN'T interested in it because it is the game everyone else plays (or has the most money). People play the popular games because they are the popular games, regardless of how good or bad anyone perceives them. Anyone who remotely follows video games understands this, perfect examples are Call of Duty and FFXIII. There's a vocal crowd within gaming sites that absolutely hate on those games, which makes it look like the general public opinion but in actuality it is a vocal minority because those games sell MILLIONS. SF4 / Marvel are the exact same way, and yet they get all the attention regardless. That's coming from someone who was playing the game regularly at tournaments and who knows how long in his free time, and I guarantee you he will be playing it again sooner rather than later regardless of his own words about the game. Expecting the actual scene to grow by making some tutorials is some pretty lofty expectations. Since you are just talking about information accessibility and understanding the game. It has to go way beyond that. Case in point.

I don't really see where you're going with this. Maybe this would have been better suited on SRK? I'd like to think that Dustloop is a site that focuses a lot more on actual INFORMATION about the games instead of all the nonsense that goes along with it. So in that regard I don't really know what this thread accomplishes when the "problem" doesn't seem to be occurring here of all places. I can't speak for the GG section since I only slightly follow along, but for BBCP I would think "we" have been doing a good job of getting all the needed information for the game to people, and it is easily accessible. The game hasn't even come out here and doesn't even have a release date but I guarantee you the people who follow along with their character probably already know what they can do in BBCP, and that says a lot. I don't consider myself a part of the "tournament scene", but from the outside looking in, I would say if people really want the "scene" to grow it has entirely to do with getting exposure for GG/BB to everyone else who does NOT come to Dustloop. I can tell you for a fact that half the time this is entirely out of our control, because the other fighting game sites will not cover GG/BB information in the same depth that they do the "popular" games. The games that are thrown into everyone's faces 24/7 with countless news articles/videos are going to be popular because that's what everyone sees and talks about. They would rather show Maxmillian's Online Warrior or Funny and Cool Moments #287 than any high level Japanese GG or BB tournament going on. Another example would be the fact that Aksys / Arc System Works did NOT bring BBCP to EVO but brought it to AX. The largest fighting game tournament in the US / the World, and for whatever reason/s they decide to not have it there. There's literally no excuse for that in my opinion, any actual problems should've been worked out somehow but them showing that it was more important to have it at AX than EVO kinda tells the story itself. If it was logistics with EVO itself, they could have just showed up as representatives and let the community handle running the "event" for it. I think that just shows how out of touch they are with the NA scene or the fact that they just don't care. Don't even get me started on Arc System Works NA twitter...... Information accessibility is not the problem for scene growth for GG/BB, it is exposure within the entirety of the fighting game scene as a whole.

That's interesting that it has SMP. I don't think it would've been practical to do any "loops" of it anyway, but he still got a proper BnB from hit-confirming it so that's good at least.

I'm pretty sure the super mods / admins have been wanting to go away from "off-topic" threads in the characters forums, and they have suggested just making a Group for it. So as I typed this I went ahead and did just that: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/group.php?groupid=106 So there won't be an "off-topic" Azrael thread here. Now that I've made the group please continue this voice clip discussion there if you would like. I'll add a link to the group into the other threads so more people will see it and hopefully use it. I personally find them (edit: the off-topic threads) unnecessary because anything Azrael Gameplay related should be discussed here, and anything Azrael Story related goes into the story thread, so there's something for everyone. Which is exactly how it is now or at least how I've handled things (not that there have really been things to handle anyway). Discussing voice clips is some weird in-between topic, which is why I haven't said anything about the current discussion, and all I'll say is don't get carried away with it. There doesn't need to be pages of posts about voice clips in a gameplay thread. So yea, use the Azrael Group for this discussion if you guys want to continue it.

I've been reading it all, I just didn't say anything because I didn't want to stifle the actual Azrael discussion thread for the sake of people thinking as soon as they say something they get "yelled at" and avoid the thread entirely after that. Let's just say this discussion is borderline off-topic and not to my liking or the intended purpose of this thread.

In regards to the topic itself, good luck. You will need SEVERAL thousand signatures. Dustloop itself only has just over 28,000 members and that is counting EVERYONE. To paint the picture even more grim for 360 players just to make the point that it isn't likely to work, *** Sales data for Extend is incredibly lacking. US sales information doesn't seem to even EXIST, and NA sales for the BB games have constantly dropped between versions. Japanese sales for PS3 Extend is apparently at 74,275 total since release (1 year + 4 months). Japanese 360 Extend information doesn't exist either. *** Looking at the information provided through netplay, on PSN there have been 101,959 "accounts" that have netplayed. On XBL there have been 14,001.....that is not a typo. When I first started posting this kind of information out of curiosity people were saying the numbers were skewed since PSN accounts are free to make. This was back when PSN was at 56k and XBL was at 10k (2 months after US release). XBL's numbers have barely went up at all. -2 months after US release = 10,603 -5 months after US release = 13,102 -1 Year + 4 months after US release = 14,001 *** NA sales for Extend itself were also incredibly low going by what other information has been provided by other games. -Week 1 US CT = PS3 42k / 360 41k -Week 1 US CS = PS3 18k / 360 14k -Week 1 US EX = PS3/360 = N/A -But Rayman Origins on Vita came out same week and sold 7k and was ranked 68th out of 75th, with Extend for EITHER console being nowhere in sight. -For Week 3 of Extend's release, FFXIII-2 on 360 was 75th and sold under 6k during it's 5th week, so all versions of Extend sold even less than that apparently. So not to be the one negative about this, but the chance of this succeeding is incredibly unlikely.

And yet they've talked about possibly using Gaikai for PS3 titles (which comes out in 2014, coincidentally same release schedule as NA BBCP). What SKD is talking about is entirely plausible for them to do, and is more or less already happening on PSN with current digital PS3 titles. The networks for those are same now between digital/physical, which means when Gaikai comes around and those same PS3 games are released I have imagine they would still share the same networks. So with that said, they wouldn't have to "port" anything other than make it available digitally through Gaikai and what SKD suggested would be a more reasonable course of action for people so they aren't buying an old system for "one game" (although imo PS3 has plenty of good games lol).

I'll play you for a little while.

Clearly there wasn't.

Yes, exactly.

Mashing = Punishing now? Ok. Context is kinda important and it sure seemed to me that the context was when you were being pressured, not when you BLOCKED and got back into a known situational advantage or neutral. My point was you can very well block for as long as you want if you're actually good at defense, unless they have a command throw or unblockable, and there are other ways to avoid attacks besides mashing. And the fact that frame traps exist for the exact reason to counter that "mashing", just drives the point home. There isn't a specific strategy to beat "good blocking" besides "good mixup". All that "mashing" is, is a gamble, hell you can't even call it a guess if you are just "mashing" because you are doing it regardless. There is a huge difference between "mashing", and pressing a button when you're in a situation where it is appropriate. I don't know maybe it's just me, but there's a difference between "mashing" and "reacting" to something, or knowing what kinda frame advantage/disadvantage you're at.