FlyingVe

As far as damage goes, don't get CH by her 2C, if she gets you to the corner (likely) you could take ~5.5k. Getting CH by 6A still hurts but is less severe do to proration. However, with the CS2 buffs to 2C, it's more multipurpose than before. Damage is lower if she can't take you to the corner, but the corner carry is very strong on those combos, so it will happen more often than not. Also, if the Mu player cannot do Haba-can for whatever reason (skill, practice, internet), then damage output goes down alot as she loses damage/meter/corner carry. If you notice it, it could be worth considering. Also, don't get stuck in a stien oki situation if you can avoid it, Valk has no real answers to that. My matchup analysis. It's a momentum match, which ever character is on top of the other wins, but Mu has a better neutral and defensive options. Still not awful for the puppy. So I agree with Cor on that one.

Like I said, there are exceptions.

If you can handle micro-walk, it's not even that much less damage. 720 is a burst safe punish, and a reversal, 360B is your tick... most times. There are exceptions obviously. IMO, 720's risk reward is too fucked up for me to consider in most situations where it isn't guaranteed (reversal, punish), I don't like to just "try" a 720.

I only watched the first vid, and the thing that stuck out to me the most is hitconfirms. So many hits that should have done stuff, just didn't. Hitconfirming with Mu can actually be harder than with some other characters, but it helps to always be thinking about what your options are. For example, when you're poking with max range 5C your two most common options will be SoD and 6C. I saw 2C come out several times as though it were a normally spaced blockstring. This applies to alot of Mu's pokes, so I hope my method can help. I'll try to watch again later with a better eye for detail.

I've been a cynical sarcastic pseudo-jerk for a long time. But I take solace in that fact that I do actually care. My point about an account still stands.

Not bad at all really, I would advise her to footsie with Ragna more. Tager's 5C is an issue for him, and throwing out 5A is very good if he's getting overzealous with his 5B. Other than that, hitconfirms could be a bit better, and there were some decisions I disagree with regarding meter usage, pressure, and the people elbow. You should tell her to get an account on DL. We're all salty as fuck, but usually pretty helpful.

It sounds like we agree for the most part, I just don't think Makoto is enough better to get her own tier. Also, even meter-less Hazama can do some pretty disgusting damage, and Tao getting 4K+ isn't exactly uncommon with that new D-loop and her other crap. Yeah, Makoto is easy to block as long as you commit yourself to doing nothing but blocking and never trying to get out...

Makoto hits you you die. You can't hit Hazama or Tao. Not to mention the damage output on those two isn't exactly shabby.

No question she's the best, I just don't think she's better than Tao or Hazama by enough to get her own tier. I think making her the sole S tier suggest a power level she doesn't quite posses (damn close though). Personal list (for what it's worth): S:Makoto, Hazama, Tao A: Jin, Carl, Valk, Mu, Litchi A-:Noel B: Rachel, Lambda, Ragna, Arakune C: Hakumen, Tsubaki, Platinum, Bang T: Tager I know I keep putting Noel in a half tier, it just seems very appropriate as she doesn't compare well to those above or below.

I guess she is significantly higher, but I felt an S+ was a bit disingenuous, same reason I didn't split up the C tier into C and C-.

That's not official, I just tiered the characters based on AXIS mattchup chart.

Just for kicks, here is the AXIS list from JBBS broken down into tiers: S:Makoto, Hazma A:Tao, Jin, Carl, Valk A-:Noel B:Rachel, Litchi, Lambda, Ragna, Tsubaki C:Mu, Hakumen, Platinum, Bang, Arakune T: Tager

Yeah, all that is true, I just don't think she's in the same league as Makoto, Jin, Hazama, or Tao.

I didn't say Noel was weak, I said she sucks. Whenever I play Noel (in any of the games) it always feels like the character is playing itself, more-so than me playing the character. Also, no way in hell is she the second best in the game. I'm not even convinced shes top tier.

Because Noel sucks?

She's different, alot of people still try to play her like CS1 Mu, she really can't do offense anymore. As a result, I think she has less really one sided matchups, but over-all is a much better character (just below top tier imo). I could explain in more detail, but this is the Tager forums. Mu also has the problem of not attracting alot of players (like Carl or Rachel), so tech and strats don't come as quickly, nor do tournament victories.

Also, Mu is way better than that chart suggests.

^^^ I ended my time on DustLoop before the great outage by insulting Noel and Arakune... I feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

The only things I can think of for Ragna is 22C>5A works on Tager, and 5C is fucking boss in this game, in addition to the usual suspects (5B, 6A, ID). Where-as Jin is pretty much the same, just better. Personally I think Tager vs Raga is 5-5, if anything else 4.5-5.5 ragna's favor. Hi Dustloop!

Noel and Arakune are dumb characters, regardless of how good they are.

It could also be a little simpler, something like a 214D feint. It would keep with the murakumo's having a feint (like lambda crescent), make habacan easier, make habacan not detonate steins, and give us a weak mindgame maybe even mist-cancel-esque stuff.

It could be because Jin actually loses some tools against Tager, and Ragna doesn't? Also, Ragna has good, easy, Tager specific combos. Not saying I agree, just trying to rationalize it.

Where's that list from? (curious)

I like the habacan. It really makes it feel like you learned something. Besides, it's not that stupid arbitrary execution BS you get out of games like SF4. And Arakune, don't forget him.

I want the satellite super to involve some kind of execution and control. As in, you could somehow master it and be super dirty. As opposed to activate>go nuts. I like the outfit pre murakumo, like what Mu wears in my avi.