ShoMeYaMoves

Fair enough, I'd certainly rather have a DS/Gundam on my team than a Hyaku for 2000s. Heavyarms is kind of iffy to me though, it has an incredible ranged game obviously but I've seen it get completely shut down by fancy ND using melee suits. e.g. even Epyon rapes Heavyarms for free since Heavyarms just doesn't have the mobility to avoid skillful and quick melee suit play even with copious NDing since they can just super armor or avoid anything Heavyarms can pull out quickly. Correct me if I'm wrong...I'd love to see some great Heavyarms play against those suits. Also wow, Gundam/Turn A team...I feel sorry for your opponents lol.

PSP nerfed Deathcythe big time, its only ranged attack is complete garbage now compared to arcade. (when I played arcade, it has crazy tracking while on psp it has almost none) Kind of makes Deathscythe a less fast and less hardhitting Epyon without it, especially since cloaked mode is basically worthless. I agree with the rest except for Hyaku Shiki not being above Heavyarms or even being in S tier for the 2000s. It basically has everything, plus it has the auto 25% revive ability (which saves more matches than it has any right to). Do you remember what their reasoning for Heavyarms being so high was? (I trust Arcadia more than I trust my own limited knowledge.) Yeah, I agree on the ND combo front. The most practical ND combos are the basic A>ND>A>ND>A triple beam knockdown type ones that most of the cast can do. But I definitely think ND also makes melee much more feasible than in GVG, even if you're not actually going for the melee hit itself but only feinting a melee rush right into a ND back>A or to bait a block/counter. That said, the definite ranged emphasis of the game means I would never play Speigal instead of Tallgeese in a competitive match since melee is generally so damn unsafe lol and it's so much easier to play ND beam keepaway.

Forgot to mention I also play a ton of Hyaku Shiki, it's a great suit. These past few weeks I've really been trying to get really good at ND combos and making everything safe with it, it's amazing how that one gameplay mechanic addition completely changes the game from GVG vanilla. Now you can custom combo with everyone as well as speeding up the game a ton, it's awesome. I just wish more people were into this game... I'm not usually into 3D fighting games but this game is very interesting and I'm always pleasantly surprised how much depth practically every Gundam in the game has, despite there being such a large cast.

I searched for a thread, found none, and this is the result. Let's talk mains, your favorite ND combos, which gundams are bullshit, w/e. I main Speigal Gundam and the Tallgeese.

Nah, you can get good stuff off 6D. 6D>623B>d.5B>2B>j.b(j.4C)>j.623B>5B>2B>air combo ender It'll get from 2.8 to over 3k iirc. On a different note, I did a crazy freestyle combo earlier today with a friend to end a round. I had landed a 2D in the corner but it wasn't CH (and it was Tager) so I wanted to let him tech to see if I could get a good trap. It ended up looking like 2D>friend techs>sj.A>sj.B>sj.4C>dj.B>dj.4C>dj.623B>late RC so I did a j.D facing away from the corner>land>2B>623B>d.6C>j.623B>d.2B>ashura I have no idea how I'll replicate that situation again anytime soon though, lol.

Are you sure 2B is 13 frames, could've sworn it's faster than in CT...or maybe it's just that other moves recover more quickly now. Great stuff though Dacid, thanks. Only thing that's missing is j.4B I believe. (Though it has great proration as well)

I've been over this for a few days now. Thanks for defending me, Dacid. And thanks for championing the merits of air resets and max damage, Crimson. I hope we can bring this thread back to discussing what we're genuinely interested in; how to make Bang as beastly as possible, without the ad hominem entanglements.

It's actually better than the more practical 6B>2A>5B>623B>d.6C>j.623B>5B>2B>air combo ender, only by like 30-50 damage or something tiny like that so it's not really a visible improvement. Also, the execution is kind of goofy lol. It also only works midscreen and off a close 6B, so it wouldn't really work off a mixup blockstring unless you did something really weird like 5A>6B since if you're too far away the second 6B will whiff. Also the j.623B has to be super low altitude. It still looks really cool though.

Found a funny one a few days ago, been debating whether or not to put up a vid of it lol. 6B>2A>5B>623B>6B>2B>j.623B>5B>2B>air combo ender

Ah ok, thanks man. I'll have to make sure not to tell anyone about that trick. Have you been using late crossup j.B instead to avoid the 5A?

In both CT or CS, it's better to just wait a few frames on wakeup if you suspect a DP to block it than throw the 2D since if they have heat they can RC punish the drive or just punish the drive if they didn't DP in the first place. I don't know anymore about this oki stuff, maybe max damage Bang is better, maybe he isn't. I just like true oki, I guess. Command grab on wakeup is too good sometimes, and barrier cancelling a roll forces you to block low for a few frames in CS so you can get a free overhead, or command grab even, if you have fast fingers. @FD, I j.4B really early in CS, when I'm right overhead them, since you can jc it anyway if things don't look good. Was 5A stuffing it when you do it closer to the ground?

I'm glad you agree Bang has better oki. The command grab is extremely important. I never said anything about tech traps, nor did you before this. It's one thing to deliberately set up a tech trap where you'll land first (or be on the ground anyway, like the old d.5B after CT bnb) and be able to react to them teching or not teching, it's quite another to do a high altitude max damage combo or A nail ender that means you probably won't get that reset through anything but dumb luck. I don't think it's impossible either, but I don't understand why you'd prefer it to true oki. Nothing you've mentioned is in any way superior to Bang's ground oki mixup. Air unblockables? At this point in BB's lifespan, everyone is Barriering ground blockstrings while in the air anyway. Frame advantage? I'd take true oki over brief frame advantage any day. I don't see how the player's previous fighting game background will have bearing on their ability to yomi Bang's oki game, especially when it really is a guessing game. But hey, if you can get air resets off max damage combos consistently, more power to you. But as for me, I'll stick with true oki so long as it keeps winning me games.

No need to get all touchy. =/ Like I said, you can play CS Bang however you like and still be highly effective provided you have good abare. I just prefer the optimal setup since my oki game is where I shine. =D Two oki combos will do at least 6K then you can do a daifunka combo or RC or w/e and it will end it anyway. I think you're making it seem as if you have to make a huge sacrifice in damage for oki, which you don't. Like I said in my earlier post, if the max damage will end the round then by all means do it lol. I personally don't see any reason to do max damage before then, though. Ad hominem? Oh my. Honestly, if the people you're playing get reset more easily from an air tech than from oki then you're probably playing people who are mashing the tech and get CH for free damage. Your argument is essentially: "Why would I do oki against people when I can hit them anyway after an air tech?" My counter-argument is: "That doesn't work when you play people who actually block after teching or don't tech predictably, whereas oki is considerably more under your control with potentially much higher rewards." Litchi has great oki too, but she doesn't have a command grab, double overhead, tick command grab, or a godly crossup like j.4B. She has the stick which forces you to block or reversal, but that's about it...you block it and the following overhead or low and that's it. Bang forces a guess whereas you can react to anything Litchi does. Litchi is better than Bang in CS, but oki isn't the reason.

Well gentlemen, I never thought I'd see the day a Bang player didn't want oki. Still, one of the great things about CS Bang is that you can play him however you like so if you prefer A nail to oki, then that's your decision. My argument for oki would be: Bang has the best oki mixup in the game imho and letting 500-1000 damage slip through my fingers in exchange for a reset that could do 2000-4000 meterless damage is a pretty easy decision for me, especially now that you can't special cancel out of roll anymore (A real thorn in the side of CT Bang's oki game). The only exception for me is when they've bursted, have barely any life left, and it's obvious you can just finish them off with a higher damage ender. That's my two cents, anyway.

If you mean just j.4C(j.B)>j.623B as an air to air starter, you can do tons of stuff with it now. You can land 5B>623B>daifunka, land 5B>623B>5D>air combo ender, land 5B>2B>air combo ender, etc. 5B>623B is too sexy.

The combo looks awesome, but it doesn't give you oki...if you're not going for oki you can do max dmg version of the normal RC combo for 4733 iirc anyway and it's not character specific. (Unless there's someone the j.B>j.4C>dj.B>dj.4C>dj.623B doesn't work on.) I really need to go through everyone to find out exactly which characters things don't work on. At first I though 6C>623B didn't work on Litchi but you just have to delay it close to the ground. Also should make a list of chars that can be j.4C>623B instead of j.B>623B for Dacid's crouch combo.

j.C is awful against Ara, shouldn't really be using it outside of combos against him. j.A, j.B, and situationally j.4C are the way to go.

np That one and your new crouch bnb are my favorite CS combos so far.

Don't try to tech trap Hakumen unless he doesn't have enough for hotaru. I think you have most of the important stuff, this matchup is basically all about baiting his drive and setting up ground command throw. If he's afraid to drive because of you throwing a bunch of command throws into blockstrings then he plays right into your hands. If he feels drive isn't doing him any good, he'll jump back+BB which is a free meaty air grab or j.623C. And airgrab or j.623C with 50 heat is scary shit now .

Tsubame didn't even properly stuff crossup in CT and it's nerfed in CS. There's actually a spot directly above and slightly in front of Litchi that Tsubame doesn't hit, I once airdashed backwards into j.C on her wakeup and she Tsubame'd and it missed me entirely before I landed and punished lol. She's in lag for ages and tsubame allows an air tech right after getting hit if it isn't CH. No reason to bother with 2A on wakeup since it's actually less safe than the air; if you get hit by tsubame on the ground you'll be put out of commission much longer.

This. Also it's flashier . 6A>623B bounces them higher off the wall than with 2B>623B, so if you're right in the corner and you 6A>623B you should have plenty of time to turnaround 6C, if that's what you want to do.

Don't respect Tsubame anymore since it's garbage. If she neutral techs, empty jump cross her up so you don't get counter hit until you're sure she's not throwing tsubame then j.4B into w/e. Even if you fuck up and get hit by tsubame in the air, you still might punish her or at least get free pressure on staffless litchi if you aren't CH lol.

623C does 2k, j.623C does 2.5k iirc. As Dacid said, j.A wrecks Hakumen. Letting Hakumen win air to air without a fight is ignoring free damage, Hakumen will only win air to air if he's far from you and has time to bring out a big air move or if he baits you and does hotaru.

Hotaru is crazy safe, if I IB it I just backdash lol. Also Dacid, you listed ground command grab as doing 2.5k. j.A and command grab are god in this matchup, and to a lesser extent j.B.

I'll be with SoCal at Evo probably. It's technically where I live, even if I'm in Europe for most of the year lol.