Moy_X7

Blocked j.B/j.2C/j.D cross-up > j.236D double cross-up, was this gimmick discussed before? As of now, I can get it to work on Tager. It works in the same way as a j.236D feint-cross-up would. You cross somebody up with j.B/j.2C/j.D and if gets blocked then you cancel it into j.236D, that which pushes Jin back to the other side. Tager is such a fat bastard that it actually works on him and it works against Arakune with the right spacing. It might work against more character but i don't know as of yet. *shrugs*

Yup, j.D cross-ups come with a high risk for a moderate reward. If you space yourself correctly and allow Jin enough time to reposition himself after the cross-up, then you can cancel it into the j.236 series. If you go for a straight j.D cross-up without letting Jin reposition himself, then you're screwed without 50 Heat, you could try to j.214D and hightail it out of there but you'll most likely still get caught during the startup lol. There's one way that you can take advantage of a straight j.D cross-up without letting Jin reposition himself on the other side of the screen and that's by going for a double cross-up against characters with big hit-boxes like Tager. The way this works is that you use a j.D cross-up, it gets blocked and you cancel it into j.236D. Since you didn't give Jin enough time to reposition himself, he'll shoot the Ice Blades on the opposite direction of your opponent and you'll still get punished BUT j.236D pushes Jin back and the opponent will have to block in the opposite direction again in order to block j.236D. lol gimmicks

Alright, I can honestly say that the Jin who fell for that unblockable Shippu "setup" in the Rin-Rin 24 video made me lol. How do you not see that? HOW DO YOU NOT FUCKING SEE THAT? If you're given enough time to be able to neutral tech, then you better believe that's going to be an unblockable Shippu and that was his cue to DP D/Ice Arrow that shit. The thing is, he probably did see it but he chose the worst possible way to react to that situation and that was him barrier jumping lol.

Heheh, what, don't tell me that's the only block string you use? Vary your block strings according to your opponent, if you see that he often mashes out of pressure with 2A then go for something like 2Axn > 5B > 2C to frame trap his ass. Make him worry about cross-ups by doing something like 2Axn > (delayed) j.2C for a cross-up or 2Axn > Stuff > 5C (max range) > IAD j.B/j.D and by throwing out j.236D feint-cross-ups in those two scenarios (although the latter loses a bit of j.236D's feint cross-up potential). Throw out some 6Bs and 6Ds if you've built a respectable distance from your opponent. As for 6A, read what JetM wrote above, and find ways to incorporate 6A into your game as long as you have the 50 Heat to RC it. The other way that Jin can land an overhead is by doing the 3C > 236D reset. Simply jump after you land the 236D and go for an air dash > j.B.j.2C right before hitting the ground. Mix-it up with 2B or a tick throw using that same setup. As for Dead Spike, he probably uses Dead Spike the moment he sees the Neutral Tech "flash", you could go for a Quick Tech and 5C him, sneaky shit since he won't have the "flash" to better help him use Dead Spike. If he's being too predictable with it, then simply DP D him out of that habit.

I guess when I'm talking about it being risky is when you throw out 6As and cross-ups, since they're usually relatively easy to react to and punish. However, you do have a point in the end here, mix-up usually comes with risks, regardless of the character. @ Nini Heart - Without 50 Heat, you're pretty much fucked if 6A gets blocked, it's too much of a risk to take when Tager can punish you with a 720 and the rest of the cast can easily get a 3K+ off lol -16 on block. Of course, this is ruled out if you go for the 3C > 236D reset where the overhead is in the form of a well-timed air dash > j.B/j.2C. You could pull it off with other ice resets but they're not nearly as good as the above. Well, I'm done with this discussion as I've been proven wrong and I'm willing to accept that I'm wrong

If you're getting that far ahead of it, then you should also go ahead and list the things that beat it, like jabs, DPs, and what have you. I'll have to agree with me being wrong in calling it a gimmick though. All in all, his resets lead to high/low/throw mix-up and without 50 Heat, the high/low is already out of the way and all that's left is the throw. Now the other way of mix-up that's left is his jumping cross-ups, but those are very risky and easy to see. Is there anything else I'm missing? The guy has mix-up but I just laughed at the though of "strong mix-up", more like gimmicky and risky mix-up.

I'll give you the resets, specially 3C > 236D, but the 6B throw-bait is nothing more than a gimmick that fails against barrier-throw.

I was actually going to bring this up, I see that a lot of people burst right when they're about to die and that's pretty much my cue to jump cancel or RC some shit. Come on people, this isn't CT That and I see that a lot of people also save their Bursts until the final round as opposed to using them at key points of the match. I for one only save my Bursts either if a round has gone so horribly bad for me and I believe that there's no way to turn it around or if I want to go for the Asstroll. Other than that, I'll use it for some of the reasons that you guys mentioned.

I was having a pretty shitty day today and then I read the bolded phrase, fucking made my day.

Yeah, I lol'd at 6C > Yukikaze, Bleh, you're usually much better than this when you play against me. Your hit-confirming took a deep dive in this match, that and the things you did hit-confirm weren't followed up with the proper combo. Lots of random stuff going on here, I know that you're better than this so I'll just have to go ahead and say that this is definitely one of your worst matches.

Oh yeah, how could I forget about 6C > DC > (dashing) 5C side swap? I've never done the DP D > RC > dashing 2B that you just mentioned, I would have never thought about doing that That's the thing though, just when am I supposed to DP if I'm expecting a tick Buster? Some Tagers do tick Busters after a single 5A, others do it after about three 5As. Hell, there are others who would go for tick Buster resets instead of following up with a combo. That's why I don't like fighting Tagers, it's all a huge mindfuck. What I need to do is up my zoning game so that I don't have to worry about that crap until after I get magnetized by Spark Bolt or whatever

lol I do rely on 5C > j.B a lot against Tager, it would have been ok if I was actually landing them but that wasn't the case, I'll try to ease up on those 5C JCs. As for side swapping with 2D, are you talking about 2D > 236D > (run under) 6C > 214C? Yeah, I could have done some 5B > j.B cross-ups in the corner. Yup, should have canceled that throw into DP B > corner combo, I don't know what I was thinking there. Overall, I wasn't thinking straight during this match, lots of poor choices in both combos and meter management.

You know what else I'm not doing? Using j.236D shenanigans, I always forget that I have access to those XD Thanks again though, really useful stuff there.

That Roland Rage video is full of lulz, just as much as the people who comment on the video and agree that Tager is OP XD

lol, come on now, online PSR and Win Ratio is a laughable thing. I had a PSR of 210 and a Win Ratio of 90% way back when CS was just released. Of course those numbers started to diminish slowly, now I can only win about 1 of 5 matches whenever I get on Ranked because the only people that still play this game are usually good lol. Offline experience > online experience, boss > Mmm, I didn't think of 2B that way, I guess I should really start going for dashing 2Bs. It's going to take me a while to adapt to that because I usually just use 2B as a starter in the corner. You must have noticed that I didn't confirm any of those 2Bs in my blocks strings that I landed because I'm not used to actually having those hit at all, lol. The reason why I didn't go for a Throw > DP B in the corner is because I second guessed myself and thought that I would miss the 6C > 6D timing, so I just went for the easier combo. You can use IAD back to avoid Colliders? That's news to me, I'll have to test that out in Training Mode later on. As for DP C, I'm not much of a risk taker, did you see how my DP C got baited by a back dash > 5D? lol. It should work if he's pressuring me though but the thing is that tick Busters are very unpredictable, they can come out from just about anything, so I can never be sure as to when i should DP. That 5D > tick 720 sure took me by surprise. Yup, I like my j.B cross-ups, too bad that I either timed them wrong or didn't space myself correctly. That's not like me though, I played another Tager just before this one and I was rocking those j.B cross-ups

Yeah, that was definitely not worth 50 Heat, that was one of the heat of the moment things, lol. I try not to use 2B as a starting attack that much because if if gets blocked then you have to follow-up with 5C and end pressure, 6D and 236D are very risky against Tager because he can punish you HARD if he reacts to them, the same goes for jump cancels to reset pressure. That and most people know to always block low against Jin lol. Yeah, I don't know why the hell I let go off the Barrier button(s), I usually hold that shit every time I jump. As for jumping against Tager, that's just me trying not to get tick Buster'd, of course he could yomi Collider that if I get too predictable. I guess I should start back dashing if I'm not magnetized to avoid getting tick Buster'd. I don't really like the Jin vs Tager match-up because of those 50-50 mind games with Busters and Colliders. Yeah, that's what I thought as I saw the replay, 5C is fast enough to punish a whiffed 2C. I'm not too worried about losing 200-300 extra points of damage against Tager because his damage gets scaled really bad the longer he does a combo. Of course, what I didn't take into consideration is that he could have AC'd me the moment I went for a neutral tech on the ground for magnetic pull > Buster shenanigans. As for the meter thing, lol I would never willingly take damage to build meter. Yeah, I guess I'll refrain for going for 3C oki against Tager and prioritize damage, 3C oki actually does more harm than good as you're once again placed into that 50-50 Buster/Collider mindfuck. That's right, I should go for 3C > 236D more often against Tager as it gives me all the time in the world to plan my next move on a basically helpless Tager. I lol'd that at one time I went for a 3C knockdown into dashing 2A for a cross-under but Tager is such a fat bastard that Jin just couldn't squeeze under him. You're right, even if he decides to go for a 720, I'll still avoid it if I jump cancel most of Jin's normals. Yup, a huge waste of meter that was, I could have better spent that meter going for a dashing 6A and RC'ing that if it got blocked. Well, thanks for the input boss, I'll keep this in mind next time I play a decent Tager like this one.

I has been a while since I've posted one of my videos here, let's what you guys have to say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3euFoLPBclA I'll save you some trouble by discerning some of the obvious mistakes I made: 1. There were times when my combo choices were poor, the glaring example here is that j.C CH that I landed after avoiding that 720. Could have easily confirmed that into a dashing 5C > DP B corner combo, or 2D > combo. 2. Lots of whiffed j.Bs, I usually am not one to use j.B so poorly, so I don't see this being much of a problem in the future. 3. I could have easily RC'd that first blocked 6A. I was surprised that he blocked it though, I was already mashing Sekkajin and everything lol. That's it for captain obvious, the rest is up to you guys.

I remember a match in which Render did something completely asinine like RC'ing j.214C and going for a pink grab. What's even more retarded is that it actually worked XD

Huh, I always thought that Ragna was at least A tier material. Hits like a truck, gains meter like a mofo, has some pretty good normals, has arguably the best DP in the game, has ok mix-up. Bleh, whatever, its not my place to go around making judgments that go against the opinions from the very best.

Bleh, I wanted to see this match D:

Does Zidane even mess with lolnetplay? If he does then it would prove to be lulz watching "the best Bang on PSN" get humbled.

Hey, at least this thread is not a complete waste since I've been linked to something worth reading.