Elstraim Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 I find myself sucking whenever I use j.D Like, I ALWAYS whiff j.D. *shrugs*
RPGsFTW Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 What are you guys using after a jumping/aerial opponent blocks 5A>5B? I always try to JC into j.A, but of course you can't JC 5B on block so I get 6A. I was thinking >5C or >6C or >5D. Any other thoughts? Just mash 5A for anti air instead? >2B? I'd like to know as well. I usually try to mix it up with different combinations. I try 5C, IAD into something like j.4C, 5D, or j.D. Sometimes they're really useful. I'm actually using drive attacks a lot more. They've make my fights soo much better.
Kicks Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 So to answer my own question... after air blocked 5A>5B you can pretty much do most of the stuff I mentioned... >2B >5C >6C >5D all but 2B have to be instant blocked or barrier blocked (according to training mode). I've found that ground to air, 5A>5A or 5A>2B is perhaps better than 5A>5B. But of course, those aren't exactly BnB so you can't be on auto pilot with 5A>5B all day. If you're running up to meet a jumping opponent. Go for the 5A>2B. It's not a true combo, but it often connects on regular hit. On block you can air dash into j.4C or command grab. If you go for j.4C. Make sure to run up or go straight for 2B after you land because you're sorta far away. If you meet an opponent air to air with running j.A's, you have a few options if they block. j.A,j.A,j.A,j.A <-----leaves you close because of low pushback and a bit below them. j.A,j.A,j.A,j.B <-----below and a bit farther back j.A,j.A,j.C <-----same height with some pushback, but nice frames The main differences are psychological. Each one feels a bit different. This will depend on the opponent, but most people are likely to attack after the j.C since it hits so early. There are probably different frame advantages too. If you have an opponent who likes to back jump barrier block in the corner. Quick double tap forward and immediately jump into j.A's after they jump. You can bring them back down and stay close even if they barrier block. I used to just do 9A, then j.C or j.B on the way down, but the j.A's allow for a bit more trickery because you stay really close. Something I need to check. In training mode, I set the dummy to jump constantly. I did running j.A>j.A>j.A. We land about the same time so I do command grab and it landed.
Browncoat3 Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 So to answer my own question... after air blocked 5A>5B you can pretty much do most of the stuff I mentioned... >2B >5C >6C >5D all but 2B have to be instant blocked or barrier blocked (according to training mode). I've found that ground to air, 5A>5A or 5A>2B is perhaps better than 5A>5B. But of course, those aren't exactly BnB so you can't be on auto pilot with 5A>5B all day. If you're running up to meet a jumping opponent. Go for the 5A>2B. It's not a true combo, but it often connects on regular hit. On block you can air dash into j.4C or command grab. If you go for j.4C. Make sure to run up or go straight for 2B after you land because you're sorta far away. If you meet an opponent air to air with running j.A's, you have a few options if they block. j.A,j.A,j.A,j.A <-----leaves you close because of low pushback and a bit below them. j.A,j.A,j.A,j.B <-----below and a bit farther back j.A,j.A,j.C <-----same height with some pushback, but nice frames The main differences are psychological. Each one feels a bit different. This will depend on the opponent, but most people are likely to attack after the j.C since it hits so early. There are probably different frame advantages too. If you have an opponent who likes to back jump barrier block in the corner. Quick double tap forward and immediately jump into j.A's after they jump. You can bring them back down and stay close even if they barrier block. I used to just do 9A, then j.C or j.B on the way down, but the j.A's allow for a bit more trickery because you stay really close. Something I need to check. In training mode, I set the dummy to jump constantly. I did running j.A>j.A>j.A. We land about the same time so I do command grab and it landed. Thing about 5A>2B is as soon as someone like Noel realizes it doesn't combo they can just 5A out of that and screw you over. I haven't tried this out yet, though, and I know you mentioned that, but I've been playing a lot of Noel recently and I'm just scared of leaving gaps in any sort of block strings now. It does seem like a good mixup although, especially since I tend to do j.4c after block strings like 5A, 2A, 2B, so it could catch someone off guard early on. I guess I'll just have to find out myself. Cool stuff about j.A though, I don't use it much myself and probably should against people who like to jump back and block. IAD command grab is just so satisfying though.
Kicks Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Thing about 5A>2B is as soon as someone like Noel realizes it doesn't combo they can just 5A out of that and screw you over. I haven't tried this out yet, though, and I know you mentioned that, but I've been playing a lot of Noel recently and I'm just scared of leaving gaps in any sort of block strings now. It does seem like a good mixup although, especially since I tend to do j.4c after block strings like 5A, 2A, 2B, so it could catch someone off guard early on. I guess I'll just have to find out myself. Cool stuff about j.A though, I don't use it much myself and probably should against people who like to jump back and block. IAD command grab is just so satisfying though. Against jumping opponents. You get 2 extra frames of blockstun when they're in the air and I'm pretty sure no one can interrupt 5A>2B ground to air unless they instant block.
Browncoat3 Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Oh geez, my bad, I completely missed that lol. Reading comprehension skills in full effect:vbang: Still haven't gotten to try it out, but it does seem pretty sound now that I'm not reading your post half-asleep.
Reioumu Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I found another use for 6b :o Hear me out, it's not much, but it's still a mixup. 6A RC j.A (whiff on hit, or it will hit them in block) 2B 623B dash 2B 623B dash 6C j.C -> oki 3553 damage. 50% heat used. I tested this on Noel, she's too small for a 3rd 623b, so I just end with 6c ^ j.C. The timing in the start is tough and takes some practice. However!!! Against Ragna (haven't tested Tager and Hakumen, but they probably work too), you can do 6B RC j.A 2B 623B dash 2B 623B dash 6C 623B 2C -> Oki 3929 damage That's right! A TRIPLE SUPER CRASH COMBO WORKING WITHOUT A COUNTER HIT! of course you can do 2363214C before the 6Cs in both combos. It will do 5053 damage since the input will be the same. Maybe we'll be using 6B more often? It would be nice to see Bangs mix it up with a nice anti-low attack combo. Did more experimenting. If you're RIGHT UP to them, as in literally right next, it seems the 6b connects sooner so when you rapid cancel, you need to use j.B instead of j.A. When you're further, you can use j.A so there isn't so much of a gap between your aerial and your 2B. Once you land 2B, you can do whatever you normally do under guard situations like 2369D -> to another rushdown and either low or overhead guess for your opponent. Just keep your opponent thinking and on their toes. Possibly even afraid :D I don't think it's a waste of 50% heat now since Bang usually only combos into his supers, but some people are really good at blocking, and you need that extra up on them. Plus, the damage on the 50% combos are better than 2/5A 5B 2B 2C [6D for Carl and Noel] 2363214C
JinSaotome Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I find myself sucking whenever I use j.D Like, I ALWAYS whiff j.D. *shrugs* I have a lot of issues landing the j.D in A B 2B 6C j.D on the cat 2 characters as well, and even then, they usually tech roll the following 2B X:
Elstraim Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I haven't read the entire thread, so I don't know if this has already been posted or not. If it has, I'm sorry for stealing it from whoever found it first. XD After fooling around with Bang in Training Mode and trying to do rapid cancel grabs after landing the hit and following up with another grab (a.k.a the DBZ shit, lol), I've found that after Bang's B+C grab hit lands, you can land a poison kunai exactly after. And if timed right, it actually keeps the opponent close to you so you can follow up with more mixups and go into another BnB or possible air combo instead of sending the opponent flying across the screen. Again, this is probably really old news. But I just feel happy finding out things for myself. lol
JinSaotome Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 so whats up with teleporting? I've recently been playing with an Ara and v-13 player a lot, and I know 5Ding Nu's swords is vital, but for some reason, even if I mash the teleport button, it simply won't come out. Same applies to D bugs, though I don't intend on GPing those often
Caveman Posted July 30, 2009 Posted July 30, 2009 I noticed this as well. make sure you arent teleporting too early. For instance, if nu does her D,D,4D,D you can use 5D to guard point 4D on reaction. However, if nu chains 4D,D and you hit your teleport button too early you will remain in the same spot. It appears that when there are multiple attacks in quick succession it ruins the teleport.
superclack Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 What do I do against general jump-ins and IADs? Maybe make a distinction between long ones (like Ragna's j.c) and short ones (like Noel's j.b and j.c) (Dai's edit: post moved to more appropriate thread)
epicdamage4673 Posted July 31, 2009 Posted July 31, 2009 Hey i had a question though guys. I noticed that a lot of bangs moves force neutral tech. I misinterpreted this at first. I thought force neutral tech meant the only way they were going to get up after knockdown was neutral roll and i was like yessssss when i found out, however, this is not the case, as once the enemy figures out that his air techs are replaced with the neutral ground roll they'll just wait and roll backwards or forwards instead and attempt to beat out your roll punish. Because from what i can see bang only has a few options to punish roll and combo and once opponent figures this out they'll give u the roll punish every time over a free 50/50....hmm i dunno just my 2cents. If im right about this then does bang have a solid way of roll punishing so they have to give u 50/50 or no? Any insight is appreciated. Oh and could we get a list of which moves force neutral tech and advantages/disadvantages of this.
10stars Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Hey i had a question though guys. I noticed that a lot of bangs moves force neutral tech. I misinterpreted this at first. I thought force neutral tech meant the only way they were going to get up after knockdown was neutral roll and i was like yessssss when i found out, however, this is not the case, as once the enemy figures out that his air techs are replaced with the neutral ground roll they'll just wait and roll backwards or forwards instead and attempt to beat out your roll punish. Because from what i can see bang only has a few options to punish roll and combo and once opponent figures this out they'll give u the roll punish every time over a free 50/50....hmm i dunno just my 2cents. If im right about this then does bang have a solid way of roll punishing so they have to give u 50/50 or no? Any insight is appreciated. Oh and could we get a list of which moves force neutral tech and advantages/disadvantages of this. erm, rolling is still a 50/50, you just dash after them instead of poking before they roll. meaty a 2a then go with pressure, or if you have them scared go for command throws and overheads.
epicdamage4673 Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Thanks for the response 10 stars. Ur one of the reasons i started playing bang. So i guess i just need better reflexes for guessing which directions they'll roll or if they just neutral tech and then proceed to attack and apply 50/50. Only problem is if your reflexes aren't great and you charge there roll or retreat and they roll the opposite way you guessed you just lost your 50/50. Oh well, guess I'll just work on my reflexes so i get 50/50 every time. I want to play bang at a very high level 10 stars any specific tip or tactic that I'll need to win besides the obvious?
10stars Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Thanks for the response 10 stars. Ur one of the reasons i started playing bang. So i guess i just need better reflexes for guessing which directions they'll roll or if they just neutral tech and then proceed to attack and apply 50/50. Only problem is if your reflexes aren't great and you charge there roll or retreat and they roll the opposite way you guessed you just lost your 50/50. Oh well, guess I'll just work on my reflexes so i get 50/50 every time. I want to play bang at a very high level 10 stars any specific tip or tactic that I'll need to win besides the obvious? If you're playing mixup Bang then all I can say is get good at reading your opponent. Know when you think they're going to jump out of your pressure and throw them, know when you think they want to throw a reversal and 2d it. Bang gets his mixup for free in the US, so high low all day.
DaiAndOh Posted August 1, 2009 Author Posted August 1, 2009 What other Bang is there really? FRKZ heavy Bang is still mixup oriented once the seals come out, and needs to land the seals anyway.
epicdamage4673 Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Thanks the advice is much obliged. Hey when you say anticipate opponent jumping and throw i assume you mean tiger knee command grab or jump command grab right not reg throw? Oh and i watched a few dora vids and he seems to end up extremely close to the opponent after most combos which I seem to have a hard time reproducing and this seems to give him an edge because the only option for opponent is neutral tech or eat tech able combo no time to wait and roll it seems.....hmm i dunno...i am pretty good at reading opponent though...good advice.
10stars Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 What other Bang is there really? FRKZ heavy Bang is still mixup oriented once the seals come out, and needs to land the seals anyway. When i go for seal fights i'm normally more defensive. I want to instant block until i get a 4 seal so i have heat to go into frkz when i want to. And yeah iad command throw.
Justice7541 Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Thanks the advice is much obliged. Hey when you say anticipate opponent jumping and throw i assume you mean tiger knee command grab or jump command grab right not reg throw? Oh and i watched a few dora vids and he seems to end up extremely close to the opponent after most combos which I seem to have a hard time reproducing and this seems to give him an edge because the only option for opponent is neutral tech or eat tech able combo no time to wait and roll it seems.....hmm i dunno...i am pretty good at reading opponent though...good advice. Dora has extremely good spacing is why. If you just watch his videos with no knowledge of Bang it all looks pretty straightforward, but if you actually try to reproduce the stuff he does in a real match against someone who is trying to kick your ass, you realize that he's actually doing some fairly complicated stuff.
10stars Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Doras really just good with hitting people with the same gimmicks over and over again. It's not even that he always has good spacing, its that he has good spacing for HIMSELF. He purposely spaces himself wrong sometimes just to setup command throws on techs, making people think they're safe. The way he plays there isn't ever a "here you should be this far away" that you can refer to it as. It's always a "If you want to hit them with X, you can make them think X wont hit by doing Y." But if they do Z, which still happens, Dora has to get back in.
Justice7541 Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Can anyone confirm if 6D is really a high-low guardpoint? From my experience it seems to be a mid-low guardpoint, not a high-low.
tataki Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 Can anyone confirm if 6D is really a high-low guardpoint? From my experience it seems to be a mid-low guardpoint, not a high-low. It point guards everything that you can block while crouching. It doesn't work against stuff you have to block standing. Ok?
Justice7541 Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 It point guards everything that you can block while crouching. It doesn't work against stuff you have to block standing. Ok? That's what I said, lol. Also can anyone confirm the frame data on 2D? I've yet to be poked out of a 2D after the guardpoint ever, which you would tihnk would be possible if there really were a ten-frame opening. I've had people hit the 2D guardpoint then start mashing 5As, only to have Bang continue blocking through every hit even after the flames were already visible. Does it somehow extend guardpoint frames through the hitstop or something weird like that?
10stars Posted August 1, 2009 Posted August 1, 2009 That's what I said, lol. Also can anyone confirm the frame data on 2D? I've yet to be poked out of a 2D after the guardpoint ever, which you would tihnk would be possible if there really were a ten-frame opening. I've had people hit the 2D guardpoint then start mashing 5As, only to have Bang continue blocking through every hit even after the flames were already visible. Does it somehow extend guardpoint frames through the hitstop or something weird like that? Yes, the hitstop extends the guardpoint frames. The autoguard is only 10 frames, but you can viably see it last through an entire v-13 distortion, or even two of them if you time it right.
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