[CF] Tsubaki Yayoi Speculation Thread

[Airk]

I believe 22B and 22D are both 30 frames, and they both hit crouchers on 30 frames too. When SKD tries to jump out of it in pressure, it gets blocked on frame 30.

Except that +0 moves are only useful for pressure resets if you have options off them that will beat just mashing jab the instant you see the move.  A +0 move that gatlings into something is useful for pressure reset, because if your opponent mashes, you can just (delay) gatling to hit them.  A +0 move where the only options afterwards are to hit jab or do nothing is not actually very useful for pressure resets, ESPECIALLY if it has a long animation during which the opponent can remember that they want to mash jab now.

To usefully replace losing + on block 6B, 22B should also be +1, making it a move that you want to mash DURING rather than a move you want to mash AFTER. Right now, it's both, and that kinda sucks.

[Errol]

I believe 22B to be slower than 22D, but I could be wrong.

22B is not here to convert from 5B, it's just here to replace the "old" 6B to reset pressure, as it is +0 on guard (if it's stayed from 1st loketest)

When you look at the video, take note of when izayoi stops rising in the air. That's when it was blocked. 

[Zouf]

Except that +0 moves are only useful for pressure resets if you have options off them that will beat just mashing jab the instant you see the move.  A +0 move that gatlings into something is useful for pressure reset, because if your opponent mashes, you can just (delay) gatling to hit them.  A +0 move where the only options afterwards are to hit jab or do nothing is not actually very useful for pressure resets, ESPECIALLY if it has a long animation during which the opponent can remember that they want to mash jab now.

To usefully replace losing + on block 6B, 22B should also be +1, making it a move that you want to mash DURING rather than a move you want to mash AFTER. Right now, it's both, and that kinda sucks.

I'm confident this move is strong for pressure. I just don't know how yet 

@Errol : i'll just wait for a 60 fps good quality stream to see this. :3

 

 

[Airk]

Dunno, your gut feeling aside, it seems like we are trading a move that is slightly slow and plus on block with mild forward movement for a move that is REALLY slow, equal on block, and has significant forward movement.  That seems like a wash to me, even with 22B being usable at more places in a string.  30 frames is just too slow.

[chzchan]

Eh, if I were given the decision to pick 1.1 j.214D with overhead property, or Extend's j.214D, I'd go with Extend every time. I'm pretty sure the overhead property got removed since the move was already getting buffed so much. Its current ability to let you convert off air hits and pretty much ignore j.D's landing recovery off goofy shenanigans or fuzzy setups is really strong. 

I feel 5B>6B naturally comboing is far more likely to stay in since it fixes a pretty fundamental problem with Tsubaki's ground game, as everyone's said already, with her lack of ability to actually utilize 5B's range. 6B's also possibly been nerfed to no longer be + as a tradeoff, which j.214D didn't really have any tradeoffs last time they made it overhead. 

 

Joketests tho

Oh yeah man j.214D got buffed to hell, and I already thought it was too good before I started getting all the tech (whack ass confirms and pressure resets) figured out with it. Like DAMN it is godly and I am actually starting to abuse it against barrier in pressure now too because it leaves you at perfect spacing instead of using other methods.

When's Tsubaki 1 charge YRC for specials? That'd make the new 22X good and just everything good hahaha.

Edited September 5, 2015 by chzchan

[Zouf]

https://youtu.be/LPwaiP00zDk?t=153 

Tsubaki vs Bang

[chzchan]

Wait the new location tests are THIS weekend? Oooooohhh man.

That being said this matchup doesn't look any less painful. Also I think they removed the ghosting from 22D.

Okay nope nevermind this is apparently from the closed location test from some time ago. I wonder why there aren't any aftereffects if she does 6A > 22D then. Hmmmmm. Maybe it is only for specials and moves with followups? I don't know.

Also if the standard followup to 22D is a dashing 5C, doesn't that mean 623C > j.236{A}(w) could become a standard filler there as well? Actually no it might be too slow if 5B can't be used either. 

Edited September 13, 2015 by chzchan

[Zouf]

new loketest are the next week end yes

[chzchan]

So far there has been zero testing of Mugen. I guess nobody really likes it over there. I doubt that they changed it, but I hope they give it at least slightly more direct practical utility. If they don't I'm still content with using it for 50 meter standing resets into decent damage. I have a feeling that average damage has been lowered across the board though so Mugen might shine again if its output looks relatively strong.

Edited September 17, 2015 by chzchan

[Zouf]

Mugen will always be shit. At least as long as we can burst out of it.

The few footages of Tsubaki we got was from someone who isn't very good with the character, so this is to be expected.

Hopefully it gets better the day after tomorrow.

Edited September 17, 2015 by Zouf

[Zouf]

Noel vs Training Dummy Tsubaki

 Nothing to see, really

PS : this preview system on videos is so annoying

Edited September 18, 2015 by Zouf

[Airk]

Actually, there is something interesting there - at about 8:30 you see Tsubaki charge cancel 214B mid combo, and then follow up (though she drops the combo immediately thereafter).  That's intriguing.

Also, it's hard to tell, but maybe they reduced j.D landing recovery? (8:45 or so) and you get to Tsubaki get 2A'd by Noel after a non-instant-blocked 22B, so that move doesn't seem real useful. :P

Edited September 18, 2015 by Airk

[Zouf]

At 8:30 she uses rapid to cancel 214B. So nope, you can't charge cancel a special lol

I wouldn't read too much into what is safe / unsafe, counter hits and so on at this level of play

These matches look very rigged to me. Dunno if they are just having fun or if they were suggested strongly to make the matches last long enough for each player to test stuff.

 

[Airk]

Oh, boo, I missed that with sound off. =/

I don't think there'd be anything too wrong with allowing a couple more specials to charge cancel on hit. :P

And of course the matches 'look rigged'.  It's a loketest.  Everyone is trying to get as much playtime as possible.  I'm honestly surprised they didn't deliberately go to the 3rd round.

[chzchan]

I had a friend try to translate a conversation on twitter between Wara and Teraluna. Most of what I got from it is that 2B is faster and cancelling into j.236D out of DP is more punishable since Tsubaki floats slower.

Oh wait I lied there's more.

j.214D has more recovery as well.

Everyone's worried about the usefulness of the new 22X series since the utility of her other specials are getting nerfed.

[Airk]

Typical.

[chzchan]

Haha so apparently j.214C wallbounces now.

[Velvien]

 

[chzchan]

Yeah so you can get 1 charge from a corner combo still using the j.236A route off of a grab. I am pretty sure that you can't charge cancel 22B and still be able to combo it so this is the alternative to the current corner combo route.

Also an example BnB from Naia:

5BB＞5CC＞3段D槌＞5C2CC＞JCJCC＞A翼 3121

Pretty much just standing confirm into 236X > 214X > 22D and the followup version of 22D can be linked to 5C and from there into an air combo.

[Zouf]

We can combo after 22B? Strange

[chzchan]

This means that raw 22B gets a full combo as a starter if used raw. I remember reading that followup 22B cannot be followed up so you just charge cancel.

Backed up by some notes translated by Hiago which says that 22B starter leads to 3k.

Also it was originally reported to be even on block, but raw 22B is +2 which is great. Still ridiculously long startup, but things are hopefully looking up.

[chzchan]

After reading the notes on OD/EA/AF translated by Hiago, it makes me think that Tsubaki will benefit more heavily from these new system mechanics compared to other characters. This might be a contributing factor to why she may considered strong in CF as I keep being told. I don't know.

I already use OD a lot, almost exclusively, but with EA putting you into AF and AF recharging OD faster, I feel that CF Tsubaki should reap all that she can as often as she can since OD will be readily available all the time. The changes to her OD from discussions and notes I have read mean longer minimum OD time and faster passive charge generation in OD. Then she still has the lower charge cancel recovery. Seems like it will be a lot of fun from reading "there is almost no reason not to go into OD at round start" in Tsubaki player loketest impressions.

[Zouf]

We already knew specific meter characters will benefit a lot from the new system.

Hakumen, Bullet, Amane, Izayoi....

You still need to land EA though to be sure to receive Active Flow during the round

[Airk]

1 hour ago, Zouf said:

You still need to land EA though to be sure to receive Active Flow during the round

Well, not...necessarily? We don't really know what the other Active Flow triggers are?

[Zouf]

Well we only know that performing offensive actions will trigger active flow, but that is all.

Kinda vague