Johnny General Discussion

[kenmastersX]

Also it seems that f.S>6H works on standing characters as well? Or maybe I'm misremembering.

Literally every chance I've seen the combo the opponent is crouching.  It's most likely similar to the old f.S>6H combo from the older games.

[Elemenope]

Literally every chance I've seen the combo the opponent is crouching.  It's most likely similar to the old f.S>6H combo from the older games.

The struggles of late night 360p twitch videos ;.;

 

Though, it's kinda curious that the majority of his normals are -1F compared to +R; it makes me presume that the startup listed on the japanese site is solely startup frames instead of the normal startup+first active frame which would possibly solve the discrepancy with the c.S>2H, unless I have been mistaken my whole life and the frame data for moves on the wiki is just solely startup frames without the first active frame as well.

edit: Actually, since f.S>6H only works on crouching and not standing (apparently), the preliminary frame data on the japanese site shows it's only startup frames without first active frame, unless other discrepancies can be found.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Elemenope

[pulisaurus]

Now that coin and MF don't share the same motion anymore, I wonder if it's possible to do a MF cancel by pressing MF button and HS at the same time instead of plinking (like Pot can execute his hammerfall -> break)?

I guess it could make the cancel a bit faster and easier to do

[koufdell]

Now that coin and MF don't share the same motion anymore, I wonder if it's possible to do a MF cancel by pressing MF button and HS at the same time instead of plinking (like Pot can execute his hammerfall -> break)?

I guess it could make the cancel a bit faster and easier to do

you may be right as i saw satou practiciing dustloop combos and getting burst unstead of AMC jD

[Xtra_Zero]

Can confirm live from nippon Johnny seems pretty gdlk right now.  His normals are beast, good damage, he's hard to approach and hard to escape.  You can't really bully him around.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Xtra_Zero

[Nattak]

This is great. Very much looking forward to get to play jo in revelator.

If you compare the enkasu to a zweikasu, how much easier is it to get it on the knockdown hit?

[Rhannmah]

infinitely easier

[brett_]

The struggles of late night 360p twitch videos ;.;

 

Though, it's kinda curious that the majority of his normals are -1F compared to +R; it makes me presume that the startup listed on the japanese site is solely startup frames instead of the normal startup+first active frame which would possibly solve the discrepancy with the c.S>2H, unless I have been mistaken my whole life and the frame data for moves on the wiki is just solely startup frames without the first active frame as well.

edit: Actually, since f.S>6H only works on crouching and not standing (apparently), the preliminary frame data on the japanese site shows it's only startup frames without first active frame, unless other discrepancies can be found.

It being off by 1 frame due to not counting the 1st active frame does make sense, everything basically seems to be off by 1 for the most part. Also the mist stance frame data being not off by 1 also makes sense, since there's no actual active frame to mess it up.

The only issue would be 8F f.S: when the loketest occured, it was reported that it was 7F. It could really be either or. I'll ask if ppl can test, it's actually not hard: if its 7F, then f.S > f.S should combo on crouching at MC lvl 1.

 

A few extra misc tidbits:

I forgot to mention 2K > 2H which is definitely also a gatling. Satu has been using it very often recently as a nice frame trap. 2K is naturally +2 (well at least I hope it still is), so he's been using a lot of 2K > 2H or 2K, delay 2K/ dash throw / etc

Airthrow is sad now, cant really combo off of it as easily, and chucks them a lot closer to you. 

There were several large jp text resources posted recently regarding Johnny combos, unsure if anyone has posted them here or not. I might translate them later if I have time. One very interesting thing worth noting was the following route:

[corner] bnb ending in air lvl 2 high ender for hard KD > land mist YRC > meaty 2H (blocked) > delay air mf lvl 1 mid > coin > c.S > etc. I can't really imagine how that last part works in my head but if so that's preeeeeeetty crazy. Being able to loop from a raw lvl 1 unblockable meterless is :o

Also most people might have noticed those xmenkaicho combos floating around for a while with lvl 3 mid into mist etc. I would just like to point out that one thing thats very great about the use of Treasure Hunt as the ender of the first portion of the loop, is that they cannot down burst - very nice for guaranteeing the setup.

 

 

 

[koufdell]

so there's a 10 dan rank johnny that showed up in this vid with a interesting bachus sigh setup anyone knows the player?
http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/v/13202856   at  4:56:00

[_Sey]

so there's a 10 dan rank johnny that showed up in this vid with a interesting bachus sigh setup anyone knows the player?
http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/v/13202856   at  4:56:00

Karinchu

[koufdell]

Karinchu

this guy is a beast sol , milia , ramlethal  and johnny ? calm down son

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkRMAVPczKk

Edited August 29, 2015 by koufdell

[Rhannmah]

Nice 11 win streak by Jonio

http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/v/13352775?t=4h21m07s

Edited August 30, 2015 by Rhannmah

[Killerwatt]

Nice 11 win streak by Jonio

http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/v/13352775?t=4h21m07s

I love how as the match progresses Johnny's white costume color gets slightly dirtier. Nice aesthetic touch!

[Mooglebane]

That Zwei RC setup Karinchu's using is sick! So much advantage on the time slow.

[Rhannmah]

i don't like it. waste of meter if you ask me, might as well yrc bacchus sigh instead

[Mooglebane]

Yeah, you could. I'd say it's more guaranteed with the RC, since I believe it forces the Zweikasu and the slow allows you to space it out to make it burst safe more easily, etc.

[TheRandomGamerD]

Anyone have the list of the official move names? 

[Rhannmah]

Secret Mikado Johnny club meeting

http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/v/15479394

[4r5]

Air dash after air Mist Finers? Dammmnnn

[Killerwatt]

Air dash after air Mist Finers? Dammmnnn

Seriously sexy. How is that possible though? JI? It looked like both jumps were used in the air combos before the air MF.

[Ghost_Emperor]

rumor he might get the nerf bat due to damage output and being able to cancel his mist. hope this is not true at all

[Rhannmah]

the only thing that I could potentially see getting nerfed are meterless unblockable setups

Edited September 30, 2015 by Rhannmah

[qwerty]

You can watch me play my third day of Revelator for the first 24 minutes: http://www.twitch.tv/joniosan/v/19227717

Overall I like this version of Johnny a lot. The new inputs really threw me off for the first day but once you get used to it it's not so bad. Mist Finer being 214 actually makes baiting bursts even easier than in the old games. The biggest adjustments for me are identifying the new ranges Johnny can fish for counter hits at and the various different timing adjustments for combos. Basically all of your old throw and Lv2 Mid combos will work, you just have to alter the timing for dash jump/IAD.  IAD after coin is now a cancel instead of a link, so just mash it out as fast as you can and you'll probably get it.

Zweikasu is easier to get than Enkasu for sure, although I have yet to come up with a reliable way to visually verify when it'll connect midscreen. Sometimes it seems like it'll hit, but will whiff, and other times it looks like they're way too high but you get Zweikasu. I'm sure it'll come with time but right now I just do Zweihander whether or not I think it'll connect.

Edited October 5, 2015 by qwerty

[qwerty]

i don't like it. waste of meter if you ask me, might as well yrc bacchus sigh instead

Something to keep in mind is that in order to YRC Bacchus Sigh, the opponent has to be knocked down. If you do it as soon as you land after Zweikasu, the opponent is considered OTG still and you can't YRC it, only PRC. So in a lot of instances it actually makes sense to RC Zweihander instead, since you may otherwise be unable to YRC it with the correct spacing and/or frame advantage.

Edited October 5, 2015 by qwerty

[Killerwatt]

Something to keep in mind is that in order to YRC Bacchus Sigh, the opponent has to be knocked down. If you do it as soon as you land after Zweikasu, the opponent is considered OTG still and you can't YRC it, only PRC. So in a lot of instances it actually makes sense to RC Zweihander instead, since you may otherwise be unable to YRC it with the correct spacing and/or frame advantage.

Could you explain why you can't YRC if the opponent is in an OTG state? I don't recall that being an issue in SIGN. Also, if you RC Zweihander for the KD, can you still mist safely without having to YRC? Also glad to hear your thoughts on JO in the new game!

Edited October 5, 2015 by Killerwatt