maraxusofkelds Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Once Hakumen is at range, the game is pretty simple. DD jdd works really well keeping him at bay for the most part. My biggest question is what to do vs an IAD j.c or 236a or 623a to approach using the upperbody invincibility from hakumen?
kriaser Posted August 18, 2009 Posted August 18, 2009 Once Hakumen is at range, the game is pretty simple. DD jdd works really well keeping him at bay for the most part. My biggest question is what to do vs an IAD j.c or 236a or 623a to approach using the upperbody invincibility from hakumen? A little late on this, but I hope it helps some. I sub Haku, so I know a few of his ins and outs. -If you have the 50 Heat, use the 632146D giant sword on a lot of his jump ins. Since his swing from a jC has a long start and end time, this will always catch him. -A lot of Hakus will mix in short dashes with IAD, make sure you keep distance, play footsie with Act Pulsar at every possible moment to prevent being in a corner. Play this fight at midscreen and keep it that way. Practice safe Act Pulsars and use a mix up of them, vary from back dashes and forward dashes. Don't be predictable, Haku can 2B or 2A your Act Pulsar if he predicts it, which can lead into a nasty 1/4 hp combo from around 4 hits. -Make use of your Barrier. Haku's range is about as good as Litchi, be cautious. -Never use 2C to counter his jump ins. You will lose. Every time. -Oddly enough, you can usually dash under him when he IADs if you want to avoid being in a corner. It's a risk, but he can't start his jC in the middle of his IAD. That's all I can recall off the top of my head.
Josh Ballard Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 You really shouldn't 5D all that often. Pay close attention to his sprite if you want to use it. A very good Hakumen isn't going to IAD too much - instead, expect lots of super jumps with barrier guard. As such, you have to approach this match with a mindset of wearing down his barrier gauge and chipping him, winning by time if necessary. And, of course, be extremely careful with 5D and 4D when he has a super available...
kriaser Posted August 19, 2009 Posted August 19, 2009 And, of course, be extremely careful with 5D and 4D when he has a super available... Oh, god I can't stress this enough myself. It was utterly hilarious when he did his DD Counter from full screen and it did over half my health after I already bursted. It is avoidable since it's projectiles, but it's not easy still. To avoid his DD counter you need to super jump and double jump toward him when his DD activates. Otherwise, you get smited.
SandyBelle Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Whenever I tried to 2C his air approaches, I often get beaten by his C. Am I screwing the timing, or is his jC unbeatable by 2c? Also, I felt that spamming 6D over hakumens will force them to hop forward most of the time, in which case a timely 5D can stop him in his tracks. Beware of him rolling towards you after a combo though. This matchup is trickier than it seems :S
kriaser Posted August 29, 2009 Posted August 29, 2009 Whenever I tried to 2C his air approaches, I often get beaten by his C. Am I screwing the timing, or is his jC unbeatable by 2c? Also, I felt that spamming 6D over hakumens will force them to hop forward most of the time, in which case a timely 5D can stop him in his tracks. Beware of him rolling towards you after a combo though. This matchup is trickier than it seems :S His j5C has strong priority when it's in motion. The only time you can counter it with a 2C is when he wiffs or is in the starting frames. It's normally better to barrier block this if you are unsure a 6D or a 2D will connect. Haku has a pretty big hit box, so 6Ds will hit him in a lot of cases even when he's on the ground hopping at you. When I fight Haku's I find it the most important to make sure he can't get near me. So, I tend to bait him into air dashing by running away a lot, and when I get a jD D > 214D in, I'll put down a gravity field to prevent him from moving for the moment. As far as frames go, foward rolls are very unsafe unless you have a Dragon Punch (Ragna, Jin, Litchi, etc) If Haku rolls forward, if in range, you should be able to easily punish it with a 2B > 3C > gravity field etc combo, or a 236D > rapid > etc. Since this is actually hard to punish in many cases, I don't recommend doing it unless you are absolutely sure he will roll forward.
cookiehours Posted November 12, 2009 Posted November 12, 2009 Guys, have you ever fought a turtling Hakumen? I fought one today and while I did beat him a few times (he used other characters), this was really weird. o.o What can I do against a turtling Hakumen? I know I could chip away at block but it's so odd.
kriaser Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 Guys, have you ever fought a turtling Hakumen? I fought one today and while I did beat him a few times (he used other characters), this was really weird. o.o What can I do against a turtling Hakumen? I know I could chip away at block but it's so odd. Yeah, mAc Chaos plays turtlage against Nu. It's a solid play style for Haku against Nu, since it dulls your awareness of how fast he really is. As for tips, just plow into him with swords and gravity wells. You'll either force him to attack due to the libra near breaking, or he'll come at you on his own accord, in which you should be watching for. If he's the standing turtle, be careful about his DD Counter. If he's a jumping turtle, I practiced timing 4DD > Act Parcer > 2C > jC > etc. Don't use this until you're used to pegging jumping opponents with 4D. I use this against a lot of Noels too. Keep in mind your recovery time from a wiffed 4D. NEVER do this twice in a row. Another tip is to use 5DD > 236D. It kind of screws with their mind on your mix up game since you didn't throw out 4Ds. As always, don't be predictable. Use 214D~C if he's at full range, run along side the horizontal swords and use a 2147D if he low guards or a sweep if he's high guarding. Don't try to 2C his IAD jC. Backdash when you see it, and react accordingly. Haku's jC is powerful and beats out Nu's 2C AND it clashes with 6A, which only puts Haku at an advantage since he's next to you and recovering faster than you. I guess that's good enough for now..?
mAc Chaos Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 Your only viable strategy: put the controller down. There is no escape! Bahahaha! BAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!
Arcade Fire87 Posted November 13, 2009 Posted November 13, 2009 Mac turtles? He's usually desparately trying to reach me. Honestly, if they wanna turtle, you 1st, Start being an asshole and plan gravity wells down 2, 4DD as they sit on the other side for pressure 3, 236 4, use spike chaser 5, more gravity if they refuse to get up 6, add pressure with spike chaser, j.DD>jDD combo They can't sit there forever. Make sure you're ready for 6D/2D Don't hey impatient and pulsar a turtle haku, you don't wanna get drive countered and hit for 5000 damage in the corner It's a fairly easy fight, but not Tager easy
so moe kona Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 For the love of god, do not random super against a Hakumen with meter. You'll just eat a super counter (and probably die). If by chance you are caught by this, if you burst right before the moment of impact when he super counter's, you can avoid taking damage completely, but now you have to be more careful than ever if you don't want to eat more heavy damage combos from the white void.
kriaser Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 For the love of god, do not random super against a Hakumen with meter. You'll just eat a super counter (and probably die). If by chance you are caught by this, if you burst right before the moment of impact when he super counter's, you can avoid taking damage completely, but now you have to be more careful than ever if you don't want to eat more heavy damage combos from the white void. If Haku DD counters from any projectile, you're not stuck. You can high jump out of it. Just time it properly.
Arcade Fire87 Posted November 22, 2009 Posted November 22, 2009 Doing Nu's DD is a waste of heat, I've seen Hakumen counter the entire super with his drive. And his Super counter is a joke, you can super jump it, providing it was a projectile that didn't end with the last 4D
mAc Chaos Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 The positive part about his DD counter, at least for me, is that even though I know it'll miss, it gets me right next to Nu, and since she's busy jumping in the air, we recover around the same time. Also, the counter is actually guaranteed if the projectile hits on the first frame, although that's something that happens accidentally unless you're godly. It's not really something that should be your first option though. Mac turtles? He's usually desparately trying to reach me. I think the times we played I just decided to try out new techniques and tactics so I wasn't playing with my normal style. I remember last time I was trying to counter Nu's swords and you mentioned you noticed so you changed up your patterns, etc. I figured I could get a look at how effective or worthwhile it would be to pursue that kind of thing based on how it would work against a good Nu. (It didn't seem worth it.) I don't really have a set play style though, it depends on who I'm playing against. (I think.) That said I still try to chase you down and you still get away. :P I don't know how effective gravity wells would be though... I've never really had trouble against them. Usually when a Nu does that against me I'm just like, "........Ok." and continue on my way.
kriaser Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I don't know how effective gravity wells would be though... I've never really had trouble against them. Usually when a Nu does that against me I'm just like, "........Ok." and continue on my way. The gravity well, if placed properly, can buy us time to position ourselves and get a moment to think. Tager and Haku are incredibly relentless with their damage, so sometimes we need a breather to think how to approach you next. You're good at blocking, so in your case, a gravity well followed by 5DD > 4DD is kind of like "Okay? I'll just get more stars from insta-blocks." I do fight you differently than I would in ranked though. No chance in hell would I go IAD > jB > jC > 2C > etc in a ranked or tourney match against a Haku who knows how to counter. I've been trying to perfect that since jC is a low guard breaker, kind of giving me my own Jin Copter.
mAc Chaos Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Well, you'll have to show me the power of those gravity wells since I haven't really seen them used much yet. They seem to be more of a mid-combo tool.
severin Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I really don't see the point of them anyways. Yes it buys time, but at the same time, hakumen has time to sit there and built meter. Which he's going to be doing for most of the match anyways. The thing I must stress most of all though in this matchup. Just... be patient, and stop backdashing. Impatience will get you a counter to the face, or a 6a to the face, or a 6b to the face. You will cry. Also use more 214D at max range instead of 5D. If hakumen hits you with a j.C it'll trade with the 214D, usually in your favor.
mAc Chaos Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 You're Desu Ex, right Severin? We played some ranked the other day but I wasn't sure. If Hakumen is already coming at you, then you're going to get murdered if you do 214D. If you just do it when you're both neutral, he can hit you out of it before it comes out if he's looking for it... otherwise I would just wait for it to run itself out. Trying to hit you during it is a mistake. But, I don't know, that's just what it looks like from my side of it.
severin Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 Yep, that's the GT I have access to (key word, have access) 214D is never a good idea up close (though I'm still kinda surprised at how many people don't punish me when I mess up 2147D~C and get a charged spike strip instead). At mid-max range, I often hit/trade with it. Its vertical range also helps with non air-dash approaches. Also mind the fact that if he's in range, hakumen can counter your 214D for super combo funtime. I just about facepalmed after dashing behind my 214D~C at pulsr, only to eat a 6D.
qwerty Posted December 6, 2009 Posted December 6, 2009 I really don't see the point of them anyways. Yes it buys time, but at the same time, hakumen has time to sit there and built meter. Which he's going to be doing for most of the match anyways. 5DD slowfield x n instant mixups, just add knockdown! If Haku DD counters from any projectile, you're not stuck. You can high jump out of it. Just time it properly. this is only half true. yukikaze requires very strict timing against projectiles to be guaranteed, but it can be pulled off. try doing it in training mode against nu's 4D (preferably after 5DD, that way you have time to buffer it). if you can initiate yukikaze on the exact frame 4D connects, the followup is guaranteed.
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