Niko Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 I'm pretty confused about some aspects of this matchup. Why is Hakumen able to do a counter mid-combo without instant blocking? Scenario is getting a 2A 5A 5B hit and then he counters me out of the 6B followup or something similar. I've had the same happen when I use too many jabs in a sandwich loop (2A 5A 2A 5A 5B 2B 6B 6D etc.), but these last few times he was blocking just 3 hits when he countered me, so it doesn't have anything to do with combo proration. When Ragna tries to mash Inferno Divider out of a tight ground loop I get a free CH reset every time as long as I don't drop my combo, but that doesn't seem to work against Hakumen. Is it a mistake to keep the loops tight on Hakumen? Also, I did gear special against a Hakumen jumping in with j.C -- I even saw the startup animation -- but instead of getting hit he simply blocked it. Does his black void thing grant him invincibility? I've noticed Hakumen ignores Nirvana's claps when cutting them with a C attack, so I speculated that the same thing might have happened with Laetabilis Cantata. One last question: The Hakumens I play tend to counter my ground followups after a blocked j.C (j.C blocked, 5B followup gets countered) or even after a j.2C allecan crossup hit (j.2C allecan crossup hits, 5B followup gets countered). Am I too high in the air? Dropping inputs? Or is Carl's block-/hitstun just too pitiful? Any pointers would be appreciated.
Zoogstin Posted August 27, 2010 Posted August 27, 2010 Simply put if you're getting countered and you were initially hitting Hakumen then either: a. hit stun proration kick in (although you claim in some situations it isn't) b. you're dropping the combo (for instance 5B-6B). I can't see any other way. If you're doing an aerial move, land, and then do standing B and you get countered then you did not put him in enough hit/block stun. If Hakumen blocks a j.C or j.2C allecan I am more than confident that there is not enough blockstun to prevent him from countering you unless hit him maaaad low to the ground. Increase your throw count. About the Hakumen countering your gear super, keep in mind that once Hakumen has an orb out, he can literally sit inside of it and if he's far enough in his entire sprite is immune projectiles attacks. The orb probably gave him enough time to block.
Marionette Pwii Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 no offense Shiro,but I think you're making this harder than it already is.sure asking questions is good but don't you think you should take it slower?
Grec Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 I hate this matchup, Haku just spams jc until his meter is up and he wtf owns me.
Mascarpone Posted September 6, 2010 Posted September 6, 2010 If he's just jumping and spamming it you can CH Brio pretty easy. If he's doing it with method and not being an idiot then you might be slightly more boned. You really just have to hold back, predict right, punish then never let go. and as they've said before, grabbing is great. I wasn't so sure at first but it's entirely true. Grab hakumen and he cries bitter tears. Delay your resets a little and wait for him to counter and score yourself a throw counter. 2 or 3 resets is sometimes all it takes to win a match c.c
Niko Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I'm back for more advice, because the matchup is still giving me hell. It's an uphill battle getting close to Hakumen. But what's your best option once you manage to get him sandwiched? Specifically, what kind of resets should I use? The Hakumens I play on a regular basis have gotten very good at blocking high/low mixups; 2D beats j.2C crossup; even throw shenanigans (green throw after 2A or Volante) aren't working anymore. Maybe I'm being too predictable, but it seems like an awfully risky guessing game no matter what you're doing, and not necessarily one in Carl's favor. Should I just go straight into knockdown > 2D loop whenever possible?
njmamm Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Well, for one, instead of just mixups, set up the UBs (as close as you can) and watch out for D. Learn to watch for what your opponent does and react to the things they tend to do, or yomi and such. They keep 2Ding your crossups? Delay your attacks and punish their recovery (and if they're really only using 2D, use other jumping attacks [which are overheads] till they learn or something). Throw shenanigans just not working? Well, that depends. If they keep jumpin' your throws what are you to do? Simply jump with them and air-throw . Alternatively, use 6A into air combo or air pressure (hopefully into clap). Of course, with all of these you have to predict. But this is the point. It's all about switchin' it around according to what you think they're gonna do (this goes for defense as well). With Nirvana by your side, you have a whole 'nother weapon to be feared and used, widening up your options. Basically, you wanna give them a good mind-fuck.
ZONG_one Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Should I just go straight into knockdown > 2D loop whenever possible? Yes. Get that damage. Resets are too risky in this match. If they're blocking all of those though.. throw in one of these resets and see if it throws them off. Something like whatever > 5B > 2B > 6B~22D > IAD j.2C Allecan > more stuff. Or whatever into 4D > vivace A > vivace A. I'd still say be safe and go for damage. 2D will stop both of those resets, rofl.
Kyle Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 Carl can crouch under Haku's J.C. This helps me approach b/c Haku's lately have been doing a low J.C, 4C. The initial J.C has too much blockstun and I can't J.IB the proceeding 4C. Now I walk up, crouch Hakus J.C, Than I J.IB, AD, J.A against his 4C.
ioKain Posted November 10, 2010 Posted November 10, 2010 (edited) I honestly don't know if this would work, but if we're talking about hit box shenanigans. 2C looks like it lowers Carl's hit box, would it still be low enough and 2C's hit box large enough to counter? EDIT: ya not even close. If they do a normal jump and do the J.2C to high in the air you can crouch to make it whiff and do 2C to fatal counter. Edited November 11, 2010 by ioKain
Zoogstin Posted December 31, 2010 Posted December 31, 2010 Hey guys decent strat for using Nirvana to get in. As we all know Hackman's 4C puts nirvana in his place. If you want to mess up the Hakumen's timing a little bit, back away as far as possible from Hakumen and teleport Nirvana to your new spot. Then have her Do fuoco from a far distance. Hakumen is really good at stopping fuoco before its gets started. But if Hakumen is out of reach during its startup and fuoco becomes active it becomes more awkward to stop for Hakumen. Believe me!!! I should test this with Litchi.
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