[CS1] Bang Discussion and Question Thread

[rei-Scarred]

I don't know much about CS, but I'm pretty sure the b nail cancel just means you are supposed to miss the b nail to land quicker, and then you can continue comboing as they bounce back.

[DaiAndOh]

The B nail doesn't come out. You do it I believe right after/during the drop kick, bang will look like he throws the nail, but he doesn't before he hits the ground and his momentum leaves you closer than if you didn't do the nail... So close that you can combo :D

[Dacidbro]

But now it's discovered you can combo without the Bnail whiff, and possibly better.. since you can just air dash jB j4C land jA j623B to air combo

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

And im just curious, i would like to ask the bang players, how much has your game changed now that D moves arent jump cancelable on block anymore? I know it hurt a BUNCH of bang players who played defensively, but you more offensive bang players, does it really change alot? the fact that it leaves you in a crouching punish state is pretty bad imo.

[zeth07]

And im just curious, i would like to ask the bang players, how much has your game changed now that D moves arent jump cancelable on block anymore? I know it hurt a BUNCH of bang players who played defensively, but you more offensive bang players, does it really change alot? the fact that it leaves you in a crouching punish state is pretty bad imo.

From watching the JPN videos they dont even seem to get punished for it as bad as you would think.

I'll let the lucky players who get to play CS give their experience. But for now I don't think it is nearly as bad as it sounds.

[huey253]

without instant blocking i've only seen tao punish 2D so its pretty safe just not as safe as before. it was a bad habit beforehand anyways...

[TOKiMONSTA]

oh new combo i think.

i had 100 heat so it was safe ish.. but it only requires 50 heat.

full screen poke poke to 5k dmg ftw

3C 2B daifunka 5A 5B air combo did like 49xx dmg

still pretty ridiculous lol, no need to waste ashura there because the air combo added the last 9xx damage which is more then ashura

I posted it a while back. 3C 2B Daifunka does 4.5kish + Ashura is 5.1kish or + air combo super crash ender 5.1kish as well

Quick combo question, I saw in one of the Bang threads that off throw you can do b nail cancel, dash 5c, 6a etc. Tried it now that we have CS here in Buffalo (closer to the Falls really but whatever) and couldn't get the b nail to hit no matter when I timed it. If I did it before the drop kick or right as it hit, I would land before the nail came out. If I let him bounce back some, the nail came out but whiffed. What am I doing wrong?

I'm kind of in a rush to read 20 pages right now so sorry if this was already answered.

The point is to not let the nail come out. You should cancel after the kick hits. You can only do it if you have 1 nail but it won't use the nail, it allows you to land faster to continue comboing.

[kilabeep3]

at super kawaii i know it hurt my game a little bit, i still plat CT most of the time so old habits are hard to break. but its not noticeable at all. bangs buffs are just too awesome. his pressure game is all you need. the cast cant keep up with my ninja! add that to the fact that he dishes out damage like a mother fucker now. basically 5A is godlike for pokes and D hits faster so you can 4 seal off almost anything now.....leading into FRKZ pressure. once your in FRKZ its GG for most people.

[Dacidbro]

Yes, well.. be careful with FRKZ. Against the better poking characters (Litchi, Ragna, Jin) you're going to get killed if you aren't meticulously efficient on approach against the better players.

[zeth07]

And im just curious, i would like to ask the bang players, how much has your game changed now that D moves arent jump cancelable on block anymore? I know it hurt a BUNCH of bang players who played defensively, but you more offensive bang players, does it really change alot? the fact that it leaves you in a crouching punish state is pretty bad imo.

I forgot to ask before, but how do you know a "BUNCH" of Bang players who played defensively? Why in the world would they play defensively??? Maybe that was their problem to begin with........

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

From watching the JPN videos they dont even seem to get punished for it as bad as you would think.

I'll let the lucky players who get to play CS give their experience. But for now I don't think it is nearly as bad as it sounds.

You can do some heavy meterless damage. If im right next to you and i block that 2D, 5B 5C 2C 214214D > 5C > jD stuff > 6D etc etc is a 5k punish for 50 heat. even without meter youre gonna be eating like 4k+ Oki (ends in 22C) ;_;

And i havent tried it, but does RC > Block on his D moves work? If so, that is ayuss. IMO the only thing bang really has going for him is his pressure game, which got really good. 623B is a great move to take out primer. Defensively you really need to be alot more careful or read really well if you want to be safe. But how much damage can you get off 2D? Meterless and with like 50 heat?

[Dacidbro]

Actually, agreed. Bang can play patiently, but that's just waiting for the right opening to start his offense. He doesn't have the right tools for defensive playing, like Blockumen, and isn't forced into it, like Tager. Granted, defense is important, but it should never be deliberate. BB rewards aggression.

[10stars]

You can do some heavy meterless damage. If im right next to you and i block that 2D, 5B 5C 2C 214214D > 5C > jD stuff > 6D etc etc is a 5k punish for 50 heat. even without meter youre gonna be eating like 4k+ Oki (ends in 22C) ;_;

And i havent tried it, but does RC > Block on his D moves work? If so, that is ayuss. IMO the only thing bang really has going for him is his pressure game, which got really good. 623B is a great move to take out primer. Defensively you really need to be alot more careful or read really well if you want to be safe. But how much damage can you get off 2D? Meterless and with like 50 heat?

No one, including people from japan - have consistently punished bang drives yet. He can get 3.1-3.3ish without heat and 4.0-4.3ish with heat. 623b ends bangs pressure, and is punishable on IB, it's not that great right now.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

I forgot to ask before, but how do you know a "BUNCH" of Bang players who played defensively? Why in the world would they play defensively??? Maybe that was their problem to begin with........

i have NO idea why you would play bang defensively.

No one, including people from japan - have consistently punished bang drives yet. He can get 3.1-3.3ish without heat and 4.0-4.3ish with heat. 623b ends bangs pressure, and is punishable on IB, it's not that great right now.

im confused, how is it not consistently punishable? Of course you can only connect with some fast attacks, but thats still punishable. Please explain, im kind of confused

How hard can you punish 623B? like can i start right off after IB and like dash in and do 5B 5C 5D or do i need to be close and punish with like, a jab. Since numbers arent out (i should probably wait) how much damage do you take off of it getting IB'd? Whats the strongest punish youve eaten off of it? :3

[zeth07]

i have NO idea why you would play bang defensively.

im confused, how is it not consistently punishable? Of course you can only connect with some fast attacks, but thats still punishable. Please explain, im kind of confused

How hard can you punish 623B? like can i start right off after IB and like dash in and do 5B 5C 5D or do i need to be close and punish with like, a jab. Since numbers arent out (i should probably wait) how much damage do you take off of it getting IB'd? Whats the strongest punish youve eaten off of it? :3

Since I'm going through some videos now for the video thread I can provide an example since I just got done watching the match:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9200966

The very first match:

1st Round - Shadow 2D'd during Kaqn's block string and did the A-Teleport, Kaqn was still too far back for the 2D to connect so it wasn't even blocked, and Kaqn was Barrier Blocking anyway.

2nd Round - Shadow had a 5D at point blank range get blocked and Kaqn did nothing to punish it.

3rd Round - Shadow had a j.D at point blank range get blocked and Kaqn again, did nothing to punish it.

5th Round - Kaqn got Perfected, just thought I'd add that for a laugh.

It is not that it ISN'T punishable, it just doesn't happen that often due to whatever circumstances and the flow of the match / opponent's mindset / whatever.

EDIT: I hardly see 623B get punished either, but I think that is because it is at the end of a block string after like 2C so they are pushed so far back that you would need the perfect scenario to punish it. And because of Bang's mixup in CS you won't always be expecting the 623B in the block string.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

Since I'm going through some videos now for the video thread I can provide an example since I just got done watching the match:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9200966

The very first match:

1st Round - Shadow 2D'd during Kaqn's block string and did the A-Teleport, Kaqn was still too far back for the 2D to connect so it wasn't even blocked, and Kaqn was Barrier Blocking anyway.

2nd Round - Shadow had a 5D at point blank range get blocked and Kaqn did nothing to punish it.

3rd Round - Shadow had a j.D at point blank range get blocked and Kaqn again, did nothing to punish it.

5th Round - Kaqn got Perfected, just thought I'd add that for a laugh.

It is not that it ISN'T punishable, it just doesn't happen that often due to whatever circumstances and the flow of the match / opponent's mindset / whatever.

EDIT: I hardly see 623B get punished either, but I think that is because it is at the end of a block string after like 2C so they are pushed so far back that you would need the perfect scenario to punish it. And because of Bang's mixup in CS you won't always be expecting the 623B in the block string.

Of course. its not godly, but its good (623B). I dont understand why he didnt punish it either. I mean, really. He should be able to react to that. Distance in teleports is a factor, but if its blocked you cant really teleport out :o

[GreeniX]

I hardly see 623B get punished either, but I think that is because it is at the end of a block string after like 2C so they are pushed so far back that you would need the perfect scenario to punish it. And because of Bang's mixup in CS you won't always be expecting the 623B in the block string.

On the contrary, I'd say 623b should get punished way more often precisely because it goes at the end of blockstrings. Anyone who knows Bang knows that a blocked 2c will probably lead into 623b, which means easy IB. Doing it any earlier to mess up the IB timing means foregoing mixup options, which isn't really good either.

I mean, now that Bang is better than ever, people get to know his blockstrings. I see videos where, for example, Zakiyama is simply IBing every single move. Why 623b doesn't get punished more, I really can't tell.

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

On the contrary, I'd say 623b should get punished way more often precisely because it goes at the end of blockstrings. Anyone who knows Bang knows that a blocked 2c will probably lead into 623b, which means easy IB. Doing it any earlier to mess up the IB timing means foregoing mixup options, which isn't really good either.

I mean, now that Bang is better than ever, people get to know his blockstrings. I see videos where, for example, Zakiyama is simply IBing every single move. Why 623b doesn't get punished more, I really can't tell.

Hazama's 5B is very fast but has very short range. Im assuming he didnt want to risk getting Ashura'd or 2D'd.

[KowtowRobinson]

The B nail doesn't come out. You do it I believe right after/during the drop kick, bang will look like he throws the nail, but he doesn't before he hits the ground and his momentum leaves you closer than if you didn't do the nail...

So close that you can combo :D

But now it's discovered you can combo without the Bnail whiff, and possibly better.. since you can just air dash jB j4C land jA j623B to air combo

I figured it might be a whiff nail thing after I posted that, lol. I'll try both of these combos next time I get up to the barcade.

What can be combo'd off that second one, after the land, j.A to pawnch?

[GreeniX]

j.623b can be followed by 5b aircombo, or, this one is conjecture on my part, maybe even 5b 2b aircombo. The standard aircombo is something like j.b j.4c dj.4c dj.c, with an optional j.236a for poison. If you want to go for the super, 5b 623b may combo, I don't really know about the combo length the ground throw allows (comboing after a normal throw is quite a foreign concept to Bang players). But then, maybe you'd have been better doing a nail cancel d.5c 6a 623b, if you wanted to super that much. At least in CT, that was usually the most damaging way of going about it.

[KowtowRobinson]

Thanks I'll give that a shot next time I play. I loved doing RC combos off his normal throw in the last game so comboing off his throw is something I want to be able to do. Not needing meter to do it is even better. Still can't believe he can super off air grab into the corner lol.

[GreeniX]

And that's for 5k. Airthrows, at least correctly spaced, just went from "Why would you do this you idiot at least command throw or something" to an actual choice between being untechable or damaging.

[Reioumu]

I think it's worth noting that you can jump cancel drive moves on block in FRKZ :D I've been working on FRKZ shit. Just about every FRKZ combo from CT still works.

[huey253]

nice, back to my spamming d habits :D hmmm, i tried to see if i could extend my frkz from ct but i would always drop it at the end because i'm not extra stuff *thanks a couple hours of grinding frkz combos in ct* edit: using ashura in any place that was too close to the wall for daifunka to land works

[AtTheGates]

through the miracle that happened today, i can now play blazblue CS, and i have a sparring mode. better than nothing. you can count on me contributing soon. fuck yeah.