SimpleKiss Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 if you have no magatama, then it's pretty much just 3C, 3C. if you have one magatama, then you can do: 3C, 2B -> Guren, dash, 5A -> j.A, j.B -> dj.2C, dj.C with 2 magatama, you can link to Renka, but that doesn't lead to anything unless you're in the corner, in which case you can link a 2C after Renka to get a corner air combo. everything is non-counter hit, btw. i haven't paid attention if there are specific 3C CH combos or not. Renka does lead into air combo if you cancel after the first hit into enma, I'm pretty sure. It may have been counter hit, but i'm 100% certain I've done it before.
SimpleKiss Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Is that worth 4 stars though? Why wouldn't it be. If you're going to hit confirm a 2A into it, why wouldn't you do it off a sweep?
mAc Chaos Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Well, if I do a combo with 214B it's usually 214B > 236A > 6C. If I want to do a 623AA combo I usually just do that off 5B or 5C. So then you're spending about 2 stars for like 3500ish damage. That seems like it would do just as much and spend half the stars. I guess if you just want to do as much damage as you can off that 3C it would be good though.
SimpleKiss Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 Well, if I do a combo with 214B it's usually 214B > 236A > 6C. If I want to do a 623AA combo I usually just do that off 5B or 5C. So then you're spending about 2 stars for like 3500ish damage. That seems like it would do just as much and spend half the stars. I guess if you just want to do as much damage as you can off that 3C it would be good though. Because of the new J.C being able to combo at the end of it (which can put them in the corner easily from mid screen because of the huge knockback on it) and the fact that Hakumen's auto-meter gain was nerfed and gains more meter by dealing damage now, it becomes worth it to do: 214.b (1) -> 623AA -> J.2c -> 2.C -> SJ.2A ->Air Dash -> J.2A -> J.C It winds up only being about 2.5, maybe 3 stars of meter, and now they are in the corner. If they aren't they should be pretty darn close, or you just got yourself out of it.
rtl42 Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 thx for the correction, that was supposed to be a dj.2A. what "lab work" is there to be done? the game's been out for months in Japan, most combos are fleshed out. one thing to work on is iad follow-ups to: Enma -> sj.C, falling sj.C |> ... there was one match vid with Shadow where he legitimately followed-up with something like ... iad.j.A or iad.j.2A, but it seemed to require the corner. anyways, i don't think you can do 3C, 5C but i could be wrong on that, i haven't actually tried, myself. iirc you can do 3C, 2C, but that's only really worthwhile in the corner as far as I can tell. SimpleKiss: by all means, if you have 4 magatama, go for 3C, Renka (1) -> Enma -> etc. i was just trying to point out what could be done with less than 4. anyways, just based on vids and some other players i've seen around where i play (which isn't famous, btw, but there are other Hakumen players), hit-confirming 2A into Renka -> Enma -> air combo seems to be the new staple combo.
SimpleKiss Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 thx for the correction, that was supposed to be a dj.2A. what "lab work" is there to be done? the game's been out for months in Japan, most combos are fleshed out. one thing to work on is iad follow-ups to: Enma -> sj.C, falling sj.C |> ... there was one match vid with Shadow where he legitimately followed-up with something like ... iad.j.A or iad.j.2A, but it seemed to require the corner. anyways, i don't think you can do 3C, 5C but i could be wrong on that, i haven't actually tried, myself. iirc you can do 3C, 2C, but that's only really worthwhile in the corner as far as I can tell. SimpleKiss: by all means, if you have 4 magatama, go for 3C, Renka (1) -> Enma -> etc. i was just trying to point out what could be done with less than 4. anyways, just based on vids and some other players i've seen around where i play (which isn't famous, btw, but there are other Hakumen players), hit-confirming 2A into Renka -> Enma -> air combo seems to be the new staple combo. Yeah it's probably his most cost effective combo in CS now. I was just responding to MAC on if it'd be worth it. The answer is yes: Any time you can do that combo, you should... Well, in 90% of situations I'd say.
rtl42 Posted May 26, 2010 Posted May 26, 2010 btw, going back to the topic of match videos, did anyone else see Film's Hakumen from the tournament matches at this site: http://s1.shard.jp/contractor/intokyo/index.html -> Movie -> first (only, so far) link (he only shows up in #12, his partner OCVs the other side in #9) i was wondering what was up with his combos. he kept going for Zantetsu, and several times seemed to stop his combo (as opposed to dropping it by accident). i don't think he usually misses his combos, so i was sorta assuming he was anticipating a burst by the opponent, but there were some times where i really had no idea what he was doing/thinking.
SimpleKiss Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 btw, going back to the topic of match videos, did anyone else see Film's Hakumen from the tournament matches at this site: http://s1.shard.jp/contractor/intokyo/index.html -> Movie -> first (only, so far) link (he only shows up in #12, his partner OCVs the other side in #9) i was wondering what was up with his combos. he kept going for Zantetsu, and several times seemed to stop his combo (as opposed to dropping it by accident). i don't think he usually misses his combos, so i was sorta assuming he was anticipating a burst by the opponent, but there were some times where i really had no idea what he was doing/thinking. That has to be an old video. It looks like he just transitioned from CT to CS.
rtl42 Posted May 27, 2010 Posted May 27, 2010 oh you know what, i didn't even notice the date, it says jan. 7th no wonder. thanks for pointing that out lol, question withdrawn.
Sophisticat Posted May 28, 2010 Posted May 28, 2010 What "lab work" is there to be done? Custom combos. I don't always go for the standard stuff Haku "should use" because I might see some interesting property of a combo I make up I could put to good use beyond star/damage efficiency.
Sophisticat Posted June 5, 2010 Posted June 5, 2010 I copy-pasted all the new SBO Gamechariot quals. vids with Haku right here. Riveting! ふぃるむ（ハクメン）、紅也（ノエル） VS コイチ（ライチ）、かきゅん（ラグナ） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/156/ 紅也（ノエル）、ふぃるむ（ハクメン） VS モッコリマン（ラグナ）、０（ハクメン） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/157/ 聖誉（ジン）、レキ（ラグナ） VS Shadow（ハクメン）、フィオ（ライチ） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/158/ 紅也（ノエル）、ふぃるむ（ハクメン） VS アキラ（テイガー）、ちん（ハクメン） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/168/ 勇者ぶっぱ（ハザマ）、僧侶Dio（カルル） VS ふぃるむ（ハクメン）、紅也（ノエル） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/169 勇者ぶっぱ（ハザマ）、僧侶Dio（カルル） VS ちん（ハクメン）、アキラ（テイガー） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/170 かきゅん（ラグナ）、ふぃるむ（ハクメン）、れりあ（ラムダ）、ドラ（バング）、電脳（バング）、マスタニ（バング） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/174 ドラ（バング）、あーてぃ？（ハザマ）、ふぃるむ（ハクメン）、電脳（バング）、マスタニ（バング） http://zoome.jp/gamechariot/diary/175 Good play out of the green Haku. Shadow was a bit annoying to watch, but he did do well. We need more Blue Haku (Suzume?), though. There's stuff in there I'm stealing for sure.
Sophisticat Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Oh my God, Rachel looks so boned by the matchup. Revenge, sweet revengeeee! That said, it's looking pretty 8-2 to me from here, though in Qwerty's opinion it's 7-3. What makes it not 8-2? Also saw something which was confirmed -- you can do j.C or 4c after throw break. It bugs me that in CT you can't really do anything, and some characters could pressure you right after, so I'm pleased we got something too.
Sophisticat Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Yeah, but that costs meter, same with doing Tsubaki after air throw break. You can do it once in a while, but not consistently. Now we got meterless options, which is cool.
qwerty Posted June 13, 2010 Author Posted June 13, 2010 That said, it's looking pretty 8-2 to me from here, though in Qwerty's opinion it's 7-3. What makes it not 8-2? it's not as bad as it looks. but it almost is (i may even say 7.5-2.5), so i can't blame you.
seyu Posted June 19, 2010 Posted June 19, 2010 I copy-pasted all the new SBO Gamechariot quals. vids with Haku right here. Riveting! Good play out of the green Haku. Shadow was a bit annoying to watch, but he did do well. We need more Blue Haku (Suzume?), though. There's stuff in there I'm stealing for sure. just watched them all. really like firumus(thats a weird name i guess some us are quiet us huh?) playstyle. still i find it depressing how buppa still kicks all of the hakumens despite the unfavorable matchup
seyu Posted June 19, 2010 Posted June 19, 2010 it's "film", btw, not "fuirumu". yes sureXD god dammit sometimes i m a bit stupid. thanks though:)
RinHara5aki Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 I've posted one video, and there are more video's coming up of your moderator, Spark with raw gameplay. Gotta say, Spark is another level. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUfWdPE-UMg
Sophisticat Posted June 20, 2010 Posted June 20, 2010 ^ Nice. Very solid play, I like! Two Q's, though: why so much 2a mash, and doesn't the new corner loop have 2-3 more hits than what's seen? I'm pretty sure you stick in an extra j.C or something for more dmg. Looking forward to seeing the other vids, I'll be keeping an eye on Spark's play.
rtl42 Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 ah, perfect, someone got this situation on camera. so what is the BEST counter for what happens at 1:42-43 -- i don't know the move name, but Hazama swings low with his chain, then cancels into a "stance" and kinda holds, then goes for the high, overhead kick follow-up. i noticed that this time, Spark hit him with a 3C, but couldn't follow-up with a 2B. (was that just a button miss, or does it not usually connect?) i havent' had the chance recently, but i was wondering if you can counter Hazama mid-move with 5A, then link into 5C. Sophisticat: what 2A mash are you referring to? if it's towards the end, I think Spark was partially using 2A as an anti-burst tactic, and partially because it's a relatively safe method to keep a check on the opponent, in case they start hitting buttons or try to backdash/jump away. After about the 3rd or 4th jab, though, it becomes a kinda safe way to push them out, a bit. i think there were a couple of times earlier in the match where Spark used a bunch of 2A's in a row -- that could've been either for hit-confirming, or because he didn't have enough magatama to combo into anything worthwhile (so again, just take the 2A damage and push them away). the corner "loop" he did is actually the standard version that gives you knockdown. other versions with more j.2As, or more 2C relaunches, will push you far enough away that you won't get that last falling j.C into 5C, 3C.
Spark Posted June 21, 2010 Posted June 21, 2010 At 1:42-43 Hazama did 3C and canceled into the stance which can go low, go high, cancel, or flash kick. In this situation if you know they will do the stance you should always do 3C on reaction to the stance. 3C will hit Hazama out of the air if he does the over head attack, will be fast enough to beat out the low attack, will whiff the flash kick (but you recover fast enough to 214A him), and if he does the cancel it will not be fast enough to avoid being hit by 3C. When you hit Hazama out of his overhead hop with 3C it hits him in the air so he isn't grounded so 2B can't follow up. I did 2B there just as a habit as a follow up to 3C. Also if Hazama doesn't cancel 3C into anything doing 3C will hit him before he recovers. Of course doing 3C against Hazama's 3C isn't always the best idea because if he knows you are doing this he can cancel into his 236D fireball which will beat out Hakumen's 3C. However, he can't follow up on CH 236D on less he has you in the corner or RCs. Oh the 2As in most of the situations were to give me time to think about what to follow up with, either to renka combo, go for a mixup, or watching for bursts. You really shouldn't do renka if you can't follow it up with a combo, but I hate not being able to get knock down from 2A. But, that's just a bad habit of mine.
qwerty Posted June 21, 2010 Author Posted June 21, 2010 real talk: best hakumen in the states posting above me if i cared about this game i would offer a money match at evo, but alas....
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