[CS1] Jin Gameplay Discussion v2 (No bitching edition)

[Yuushiro]

kidivper hazama is pretty decent....,

he improved a lot too..., I had difficult times against him.

the key is just be careful and watchout eventhough he is up there or what not...

bait his DP too..., try to predict his movement and if he has 0 snake gauge that's your chance...

try to keep him to fish for time out too, coz he can escape just like rachel

[xlolxlolx]

theres something really wrong if hazama isnt causing problems LOLOLOL

[smooshman]

Hazama is rather annoying, getting in is the biggest problem.

ice swords are essentially out, and keeping pressure is tough since he can just spiderman his way out..... 2D is a risky move since, unlike a lot of characters with projectiles, his are fast.... touga hyoujin is your friend in this matchup.... however he can counter it with his auto combo DD. if you get him in the corner, like all characters, things get alot easier, 6D can be used to bait escapes.... but it's obviously risky.

overall it's more of a odd matchup, you have to play a lot different than most characters, and if you can't, then it's hell.

[xlolxlolx]

If you get hazama in the corner it can go either way actually.... if he gets a jayoku on you then you can take 4-5.5k ish in the corner. heres the thing with jin's 2d in this one, you miss you eat chain>combo, you hit on block at max range or so you still can eat chain>combo just slightly lower chances, you hit on block at minimum range you are most likely safe but you can still get 2A'd if you don't dash 5B him fast enough

mizuchi when touga hyoujin is used from opposite sides of the screen will work if its buffered and activated during touga hyoujin's super flash thing, if hazama's within 5D chain reach then he's too close to be able to counter it.

don't bother throwing out 5d in this one, well you shouldnt really be throwing it out at all anymore so just mentioning it.

[Linear04]

i just learned that jin can follow up ch 623c with 5c in the corner

[Nov Ganon]

your hella late bro

[Kristoph]

Question: how should I attempt to open someone up who can actually block? I guess this is something that's supposed to come with experience or whatever, but people online are usually pretty impatient, so it's not often that I run into someone who has the discipline to just sit there for a while and wait it out. When I do, I'm sort of just lost.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't really know when I should using each of Jin's particular tools when I'm pressuring an opponent. Right now I use 6b and 6c just sort of uh, "whenever I feel like it." I am not sure whether 3c is a terribly important move in general (or 2c, for that matter). I do use 6d or throw when I want to keep them on their toes a little more, but other than that I don't really go in with any real "plan."

Any advice on this?

[Nov Ganon]

if u trained them to block low u have throw 6a in the mix....

[blueyesdevil]

Instand dash over them and either jD or if you have 25 meter D version of ice arrow. Or instant dash over them and wait for jC to hit and keep pressuring again on block, on hit use ice car

[Ice Cube]

Remember that 6B has throw invincibility. A good way to make use of that is to do a tick throw move (2A, 2B, 5B, j.A), run (make sure they see that you are running) then 6B (like this), mix it with actual throw.

2C is a good frame trap tool. A late 2C (which can be done after lots of moves like this) can give you an FC combo, especially against 2A mashers.

6C is damn good to punish jumps (a better alternative is IAD air throw, but you are helpless if you whiff). Jin has various ways to bait that jump. Max range 5C>delay 6C is nice, since you can also do 2D to gain frame advantage if opponent does not jump. In corner you can air ice sword (TK or do after jump) then 6C, like this.

Make use of your overhead (6A) as well. Do it after you JC something > falling j.B j.A, or after a + frame move (5B, 6D, 6B), or cancel from 2A. May need to run a bit for follow-up combo to work. Be prepared to RC.

6D is kinda "I can break your guard so you better try something to get out quick". Unsafe as hell, don't abuse, but do use it. Have options to safely continue pressure as well as trying out all the stuffs above. Example at the above link.

236A is a safe way to end blockstring after C attacks (do it as fast as possible). Gains you nothing, but at least keep you safe from stuff like Inferno Divider/GETB/dat Houtenjin/etc.

IAD 236D is a nice mix-up tool as well. From my experience, doing it after 5B(1) may cross-up while doing after 5C often non-crossup. Use together with IAD cross-up j.B/j.C to keep opponent on his toes. However, he can airthrow you out of your airdash, so don't abuse.

[Roldy]

236A is a safe way to end blockstring after C attacks (do it as fast as possible). Gains you nothing, but at least keep you safe from stuff like Inferno Divider/GETB/dat Houtenjin/etc.

Be careful about this. If they IB, Jin is at -11 frames (-6 from 236A and 5 frames from the IB), so don't be predictable. Unfortunately, it's not CT anymore...no more +1 from A Ice Blade...

[Partialartist]

How many ways can Jin combo into super, from 25 or less heat? The only one I've found that doesn't start with 6C or a CH 5B/C into 6C is this.

3C, 2B > 5C > 6C > d.c., j.C > j.D, d.5B > 5C > 623B, D super [3802 dmg, 4867 with a second super and run-up 623C].

That one's tough, because you have to get them with the 5B before they land, which feels at least as tight as the CH 623C, d.5B link. I can't test it right now, but there's probably something that starts with j.B > j.2C, d.5C, sekkajin, or something like that. Being able to get decent damage, from the high/low options of a gaga reset, from anywhere on the screen, would be pretty nice. You'd already have the necessary heat, from not having to RC a CH 623C.

Also, what do folks think of 5BC > 236C? I've been testing it out and it doesn't seem too bad. Sure, you end up -4, but you get an active projectile in your opponent's face. I've had Ragna and Hazama try to DP/DD out of it, only to eat a CH combo. Air dashers can be chased and punished. If you get them scared to do anything, you can do a quick d.2A, then use the block stun on the 236C to get in closer. I was able to get purple throws on both barrier and instant blocking, meaning the 236C safely covers your entry. I saw it in one match video, then never again. Maybe it's weak, and folks here just don't know how to deal with it, but it's not like Jin's getting stellar damage from his throw combos.

Edit: Found one from 5B

5B > 3C, 2B > 5C > sj.B > j.2C or j.C > j.D, (d.)5B > 5C > 623B, Dsuper [3498 dmg].

I'm not exactly sure when the proration rate affects air untechable time, but the last 5B can be dropped, if it makes the link easier.

Re-edit: From CH j.C

CH j.C, (d.)6C > d.c., j.B > j.C or j.2C > j.D, d.5B > 5C > 623B, Dsuper [~3.5k dmg].

[Roldy]

Using 236C like that may only work if you've trained the opponent to expect something else. Otherwise, it's easily 2A'd out of. The ice blade won't even come out.

And I don't think it's a good idea to always try and go for a super. I'd usually save my heat for extra pressure or for going into his corner loop. You'd get way more out of a 25 heat 623D than using 50 heat for a super. At the very least, save it for when you really need it (C super for punishing long range stuff, Yukikaze for getting out of pressure, etc.)

With your suggestion, you'd be building up 50 heat only to use it up in the same combo for minimum damage (800 I think?). And it won't even be a very damaging combo.

[Partialartist]

Using 236C like that may only work if you've trained the opponent to expect something else. Otherwise, it's easily 2A'd out of. The ice blade won't even come out.

And I don't think it's a good idea to always try and go for a super. I'd usually save my heat for extra pressure or for going into his corner loop. You'd get way more out of a 25 heat 623D than using 50 heat for a super. At the very least, save it for when you really need it (C super for punishing long range stuff, Yukikaze for getting out of pressure, etc.)

With your suggestion, you'd be building up 50 heat only to use it up in the same combo for minimum damage (800 I think?). And it won't even be a very damaging combo.

Huh? You can't 2A out of it. I'm talking about doing it from his throw, at the same time you'd usually 214A. It's already active when they unfreeze, plus you're too far away from them. They can DP/DD/Burst you, if you're not blocking at the start of their recovery. Doing the standard combo into 3C > 236C is alright, but they can vary their wakeup, which can make it harder to capitalize on anything. With this, you know exactly where they'll be and can watch their reactions.

You have a point about the heat usage, particularly when it comes to the corner, but I'm talking about increasing his damage from anywhere, especially if it means getting the kill. You don't think this would be good to know, in a clutch situation? If I can take them out from anywhere I'm gonna do it, not wait around and hope I can herd them into a corner. Plus, I think the math still works out. You're looking at ~5K for a corner combo, with 50 heat. Landing a j236D cross-up is 1k+, depending whether you hit them in the air or on the ground(can't remember, do all 3 hit in the air?). That, plus the combo I posted, will get you the same amount of total damage as a corner combo, for the same amount of heat.

Edit: And why is it so hard to get a straight answer out of people? I could ask something like "Has anyone tried ending a combo with 623B, 2369C, 2369D? The the j.236D doesn't follow the rule of 'one ice blade on the screen at a time', so it should provide extra ground cover and keep air dashers in check. Plus, it takes away reversal options from a knockdown." and I'll get "You should always try to end with a knockdown." Are folks so certain there's only one way to play Jin?

Double edit: The kind of setup I'm talking about was done at the end of this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzl8fHqXUJI

Sure he missed the super, but he built up enough heat to finish the job.

Triple edit: Looking at that video again, he probably could've finished Bang off if he either went for the standard 214C ending, or if he had added a 2C to the end of the combo, so it's not the best example. A couple hundred more hit points and it would've made sense.

[lmnz]

i know 5D got nerfed a lot but ever since ragna gay got so much priority in his air and ground approaches i find that it's a lot easier to land CH 5D as anti air and strictly using it as an anti air. of course it's not the only move i use when i see ragna air dash but it's worked wonders so far as a part of the utility i have in the match up. i was just wondering if there are any down falls of using 5D as an anti air as in say... their air dash animation ends earlier and they block and how likely is it that they can empty air dash and block the 5D.. my frame knowledge fails, i know :D. if it's that unsafe is there a replacement move that works as efficiently and maybe not as risky cuz i find fubuki a little hard to land when they delay their air dashes while i sit there trying to buffer the DP motion at the right time.

[Roldy]

Partialartists: Woops, I thought I saw 5B instead of 5BC. And about the heat thing...I guess knowing all of Jin's options would be good. I don't know, I'm not the greatest player, so I can only give you what I think. Just try all the stuff you think of, and if it works, then...use it more, lol.

[Yuushiro]

5D is still godly for an anti IAD tool...

also I dont know if this is already being figured out or not but

if you unleashed yukianesa

and ur enemy is next by you ( doesnt have to be in the corner)

you can still do 2A

and air combo for 3.8k

[Wing]

hey, anyone got a good FC combo that doesn't involve C icecar? tried some stuff out and was able to do around 4k with 25%

oh and it's a noncorner combo, well it ends in the corner

[smooshman]

5D is still godly for an anti IAD tool...

also I dont know if this is already being figured out or not but

if you unleashed yukianesa

and ur enemy is next by you ( doesnt have to be in the corner)

you can still do 2A

and air combo for 3.8k

yukikaze? from that combo movie a week ago? it's fairly hard to set up... but it sure as hell is some serious mind fuck, and looks cool.

and if you can also plan a ice sword it'll break the other guy out..... and they'll still get the ice break damage, which looks funny, and then follow through.

awesome, but impractical

[xlolxlolx]

if you wanna milk 2C FC for all its worth then: FC 2C>6C>DC>2C>6C>DC>623B>6C>6D>66B>5C>2C>6C>6D>5C>JC>j.C>j.2C>JC>j.C>j.2C = 4906 damage/58 heat gain 俺は神だな

[Yuushiro]

the combo movie showing it only at the corner.., if you are side by side like that it will work anywhere...

and it is practical. you do 2A > 5C > air combo.., since they will be falling down from that ice breaking...

also for xlxl, your FC doesnt work if it starts at the other corner of the screen, it works prolly midscreen, and the best FC is still in the corner you can do a longer corner loop for around 7k or so with max heat...

if you want it heatless prolly will be around 5k without oki

[smooshman]

the combo movie showing it only at the corner.., if you are side by side like that it will work anywhere...

and it is practical. you do 2A > 5C > air combo.., since they will be falling down from that ice breaking...

wouldn't you have to counter a projectile? otherwise I don't think you would end up that close.... except off Haku's 4C lol

[Yuushiro]

for some situation I ended up that close..., also I think it works only for big char hitbox....

really hard on other char than rachel, tager, arakune, hakumen etc

[xlolxlolx]

yeah it's midscreen(im pretty sure there's nothing that goes from corner to corner without heat for jin...) and you can get 6k midscreen to corner starting at 25 heat by altering it to FC 2C>6C>DC>2C>6C>DC>623B>6C>6D>66B>5C>6C>6D>5C>6C>DC>623D>5C>632146D>6C>623C, this is alot better than wasting 100+ heat for ~1k extra damage

edit: fixed the combo i wasnt looking at what i typed

[Yuushiro]

how's 6C connect to another 6C without cancelling into anything even with FC? I don't get it at all..

and you dont have to counter projectiles with that yukikaze..

if you just somehow ended up side by side you can do it..., haven't try on normal hitbox chara though, but it should work on big hitbox chara