[CS1] Jin Gameplay Discussion v2 (No bitching edition)

[shadow2bolt]

Also on corner crossups, some attacks have vacuum effect which pulls the opponent the opposite way to when getting attacked. Some people like to use that for when people think they can't get crossed up. I think Jin might be able to pull it off if you are able to get 5B(2hits)>IAD j.B/j.2C.

Similarily, if carl does the same thing with gear super, you can do this too. In both of these situations, a normal dragon punch might hit the opponent, but you will get hit the the opponent's super afterwards.

If a Carl user does use that, it is likely that it will hit if you did it fairly early. If they use Nirvana, yukikaze will repeatedly hit Nirvana until Carl is hit extending the active frames. Almost certain that Carl will get hit by it (and since he has pretty low health anyway, it should take off like 1/4 without the RC which by the time you pull off the counter, it is likely to be the finishing blow). Only way for Carl to avoid it is if Nirvana has low health and the Carl Double jumps j.214C. Carl and Litchi are probably the only ones I yukikaze against if I'm not trolling.

[Linear04]

A bug and i think c bug has vacuum effect, by the way, so kune does really have crossup tricks in corner

[xlolxlolx]

i see.....never noticed it though, oh well he'll lose his bullshit in a few months =/

[shtkn]

i don't think his bugs have been changed at all in the location tests (except maybe damage).

[xlolxlolx]

well what i meant was his cursed combos

[Moy_X7]

Also on corner crossups, some attacks have vacuum effect which pulls the opponent the opposite way to when getting attacked. Some people like to use that for when people think they can't get crossed up. I think Jin might be able to pull it off if you are able to get 5B(2hits)>IAD j.B/j.2C.

Heheh, I've been using that gimmick lately. It's just that though, a gimmick, people catch on to it quickly. Still, it's good to give them something else to worry about.

[shtkn]

speaking of gimmicks, here's one i mashed out in training mode earlier today:

near the corner forward throw > sekkajin > 6C > 236D, then do your mixup.

the principle of this is the same as the 3C > 236D mixups vs tagers, except this works vs almost everyone.

[Moy_X7]

Nice find, I usually end up doing the above if I miss the input for Ice Arrow after a 6C and end up with an accidental 236D reset.

[Skye]

6c > EX Hishouken works on everyone, so in the situation where you would normally do 6c > 214c in corner, if you do 6c > 236d, it should work fine.

[xlolxlolx]

for the most part its a waste of meter and suicide vs real dps, guess its a safe way to attempt 6a...

[shadow2bolt]

Dunno if this has been found or not (probably has with other chars) but I was messing around with Jin in training mode the other day and I found an interesting tech trap (which probably is useless in most situations you would pull it out). After 236D, if you follow it with a j.A and they neutral air tech, you can follow it with an air throw as soon as they start falling. Might test out to see if doing the jc after the j.A will be close enough for air throw tech trap if they tech forwards or backwards (which I doubt unless in corner).

If they do keep neutral air teching and start to catch on, j.236B/D may be an option to use to counter them (since you can air dash after j.236B).

[Yuushiro]

Dunno if this has been found or not (probably has with other chars) but I was messing around with Jin in training mode the other day and I found an interesting tech trap (which probably is useless in most situations you would pull it out). After 236D, if you follow it with a j.A and they neutral air tech, you can follow it with an air throw as soon as they start falling. Might test out to see if doing the jc after the j.A will be close enough for air throw tech trap if they tech forwards or backwards (which I doubt unless in corner).

If they do keep neutral air teching and start to catch on, j.236B/D may be an option to use to counter them (since you can air dash after j.236B).

which 236 D is this? the air or the ground? The ground will have enough freeze time so they usually won't recover in the air, so I am assuming the former.

this kind of gimmick is tricky and not that easy to pull though, and just any gimmick in general, if they just delay their tech a bit and jump instead or do other stuff we are pretty much screwed, especially against people that already seen this before too.

also to respond to Skye 6C>hishougeki , the hishougeki need to be delayed and also if you already hit them a lot of times they could tech before the hishougeki hit them, overall not a really good gimmick against everyone.

rather just save the heat for bigger deadlier corner combos or whatever.

Edited November 25, 2010 by Yuushiro

[xlolxlolx]

a and b hishouken can be air dashed from max height normal jump or cancelled from a normal air attack

[Yuushiro]

a and b hishouken can be air dashed from max height normal jump or cancelled from a normal air attack

oh yea you are right sorry about that. I usually only do it from super jump

[shadow2bolt]

which 236 D is this? the air or the ground? The ground will have enough freeze time so they usually won't recover in the air, so I am assuming the former.

this kind of gimmick is tricky and not that easy to pull though, and just any gimmick in general, if they just delay their tech a bit and jump instead or do other stuff we are pretty much screwed, especially against people that already seen this before too.

236D on the ground and you hit them while they are frozen. Doesn't have to be off 236D but so long as you hit them with a j.A when you are at the highest point of a normal jump, the tech trap (if they mash neutral) will work. I also realised that j.A isn't jump cancellable but instead, land>623D can catch a forward ukemi (but it is blockable). Hard gimmick, probably not too practical but it is just another option if you are showing off a little.

[xlolxlolx]

why not just hit like a 5A/2A/5B/5C then SJC throw reset instead... basically the same thing

[Skye]

also to respond to Skye 6C>hishougeki , the hishougeki need to be delayed and also if you already hit them a lot of times they could tech before the hishougeki hit them, overall not a really good gimmick against everyone.

rather just save the heat for bigger deadlier corner combos or whatever.

Well, my combos are often short and I rely on the reset to compensate for non optimal combos.

[shadow2bolt]

why not just hit like a 5A/2A/5B/5C then SJC throw reset instead... basically the same thing

Cause people probably will expect the throw with that. Like I said, more options. Not really practical in every match but just another option which people don't expect (and SJC won't work if they are neutral air tech)

[J-KT21]

I would like to know, how many of you actually use 2a as an AA? And when is better to use it over 2c? I've seen it being used mostly by Hiroshi and don't remember seeing it often in American videos. How did you guys practice it? And most importantly, what will its optimal combo turn into with 3c being techable?

[xlolxlolx]

w/e idc its not worth the meter anyways

it's usually a dash 2A AA and is somewhat char specific, 5B is better imo and 2C AA should really only be used against IAD happy hakumen and drive mashing cats, 3C>214C works on everyone in cs2 iirc

[Linear04]

2a is godlike, imo

use it all the time, even with ragna, although i can't follow up with ragna

i just use it on reaction because 2c is way too slow, and they're coming right at me

[Roldy]

You have to be careful though. You must know which moves can beat 2A so you don't give your opponent a free counter.

[J-KT21]

I had forgotten about 3c > ice car C, thanks for reminding me!

I'm not sure to understand how useful is it against Haku, since j.2c is a pretty dangerous tool against 2a. Also, is there any videos of 2a AA tutorials or something? I really can't seem to get a FEEL of it, so visuals could help me out. I've been practicing IB lately and it seems to be much easier to punish with Hazama's Jayoku Hotenjin. Which of Jin's attackS is the best to use when IBing on reaction? I've had no time playing lately, so I want to make sure that I work on improving a few things once I get my hands on my dusty stick.

[Roldy]

I had forgotten about 3c > ice car C, thanks for reminding me!

I'm not sure to understand how useful is it against Haku, since j.2c is a pretty dangerous tool against 2a. Also, is there any videos of 2a AA tutorials or something? I really can't seem to get a FEEL of it, so visuals could help me out. I've been practicing IB lately and it seems to be much easier to punish with Hazama's Jayoku Hotenjin. Which of Jin's attackS is the best to use when IBing on reaction? I've had no time playing lately, so I want to make sure that I work on improving a few things once I get my hands on my dusty stick.

Again, the most important thing is knowing when to not 2A. Usually, since you're crouching, the opponent will want to do their jump attack a bit later. This is your chance to 2A them because they're lower to the ground. If possible, try cross-under 2A, since it's safer.

And yeah, don't use 2A against Hakumen's j.2C or j.B. I think his j.C can be beat though.

As for best to use moves when IBing, it's probably a DP. Maybe 5B / 5C. 2A if you need a quick but not too risky move.

[Linear04]

Sledge Hammer beats out Astral

I did not know this

It also cost me the game