SimpleKiss Posted March 9, 2010 Posted March 9, 2010 5a is decent anti air if u get counter hit u can go to 5c > combo also 2c against tager is pretty good but overall he doesn't have any reliable anti airs Pretty Much. You have to guage each specific situation on it's own merits and decide the best anti-air option. I've found that during an opponent's mix up, and they decide to jump at close range, 5C's faster start-up is a good way to stop these kinds of jump-ins. 5A seems to be good for mid-high air-dashes from mid-screen. 4C will stop instant air dashes from certain characters. I know for a fact a well time 4C will deny jin instant air-dashes. I've also found to never stick to one option for too long. Using drive is pretty risky but very rewarding if you're good at reactionary 5D's and 6D's (EG: He's stuck his jump-in attack out there and you are able to react with a catch.) If you cannot reliably react or they are at a distance where you cannot react, 5A is usually the best option available.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 From what I can see, hakumen excels at medium range the best. They reduced his ability somewhat at close range and they left his one long range attack. If he excelled at both medium and close range he would be ridiculous. Especially with such damage at medium range with his new j.c, 4c, and overall increase in slash speed. This nerf is what gives him such slight difficulty with ragna and bang only and possibly (from my perspective) against litchi too. But having to think on your feet and play isn't something new for the skilled hakumen player:eng101: Against ragna and bang they are only effective in the air on they can get close to hakumen in the air which is relatively hard now without getting hit. As far as ground goes, hakumen has faster slashes such as 5/6c and a new 4c, along with his dangerous counters to keep them on their feet if they can get in close.
SimpleKiss Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 From what I can see, hakumen excels at medium range the best. They reduced his ability somewhat at close range and they left his one long range attack. If he excelled at both medium and close range he would be ridiculous. Especially with such damage at medium range with his new j.c, 4c, and overall increase in slash speed. This nerf is what gives him such slight difficulty with ragna and bang only and possibly (from my perspective) against litchi too. But having to think on your feet and play isn't something new for the skilled hakumen player:eng101: Against ragna and bang they are only effective in the air on they can get close to hakumen in the air which is relatively hard now without getting hit. As far as ground goes, hakumen has faster slashes such as 5/6c and a new 4c, along with his dangerous counters to keep them on their feet if they can get in close. His close range game, I'd say, is actually *better*. 6B still has lower body invincibility and is now an overhead. 6A is a good pressure tool, and cancels from 2a for good mix-up opportunities. He still has the fastest jab in the game. His midrange game is better, yes. But that's mostly the work of 4C, and the super improved 3C. 3C is scary as fuck at mid range now. His air-to-air game got better with j.C. His zoning game overall is a lot better. CT Hakumen needed old 6A, because he couldn't zone for shit. I'm actually surprised how useful projectile barrier is. It works so hard in matchups I didn't think it would, and gives him a good 'counter' zone ability against projectile characters, if you're good at cutting. TBH, the only thing that got worse is his anti-air game (from the ground.) I'm no pro Jap player, of course, but this is my thoughts from playing the game extensively the past month or so. EDIT: Hakumen *is* kinda ridiculous in CS.
Sophisticat Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 Nice! Thanks for the info both of you. Yeah, I didn't have the impression his close got worse since you can cancel into 6a for good pressure. I do have an extra Q, though: compared to other characters, how well can he break primers? Also, does 6C full charge work as oki? (i.e., don't block -> big damage, or block -> get primer broken since you can't roll -> special cancel now) EDIT: Hakumen *is* kinda ridiculous in CS. All I needed to know. Hello~ 75% online win rate. 'bout time he gave some back.
ryokoalways Posted March 10, 2010 Posted March 10, 2010 From what I can see, hakumen excels at medium range the best. They reduced his ability somewhat at close range and they left his one long range attack. If he excelled at both medium and close range he would be ridiculous. Especially with such damage at medium range with his new j.c, 4c, and overall increase in slash speed. This nerf is what gives him such slight difficulty with ragna and bang only and possibly (from my perspective) against litchi too. But having to think on your feet and play isn't something new for the skilled hakumen player:eng101: Against ragna and bang they are only effective in the air on they can get close to hakumen in the air which is relatively hard now without getting hit. As far as ground goes, hakumen has faster slashes such as 5/6c and a new 4c, along with his dangerous counters to keep them on their feet if they can get in close. What range you should be fighting on depending much more on match-up than just which one he is good at. He is fairly even at all ranges. Choose your approach depending on match-up, hakumen players need to be able to switch between all ranges. dmg from jC and 4C are good, but combo dmg are low. They are still zoning tools, and do not rely heavily on them or you would end up capping your dmg output for no reason and also make yourself very vulnerable for being too one dimensional. ragna is much better from ground approach, while bang is fairly good from either. speed on 6C is slower, 4C is 15F so they are hardly fast moves. The important part is not that start-up frames, but the fact that recovery frames are much better, so you don't get killed for using C moves. That's the main reason hakumen is better.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Very true, from what I've been hearing you don't die from a blocked 3c now, and 6c IS faster why do you think there is a 200 point damage reduction on it? Because it's faster and a fully charged 6c does 200 more points of damage. Unless there is something I am unaware of with regards to 6c and its speed and damage reduction (without charging the slash of course).
SimpleKiss Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 I wouldn't go for meaty 6.C's on oki. Hakumen can remove guard primers "ok." It's definitely not something i'd go for. If you were in a situation where an opponent was in danger of being guard broken, I'd much rather go for a hop/TK Tsubaki, since it removes primers on block and yields a big damage combo on hit.
ryokoalways Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Very true, from what I've been hearing you don't die from a blocked 3c now, and 6c IS faster why do you think there is a 200 point damage reduction on it? Because it's faster and a fully charged 6c does 200 more points of damage. Unless there is something I am unaware of with regards to 6c and its speed and damage reduction (without charging the slash of course). Because I've seen the frame data and is specifically says 20F of start-up, whereas it was 17F before? Why can't there be both a dmg and start-up nerf? That reasoning makes no sense. And full charge does a hell lot more than just 200 extra.
WallJumpMan Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Because I've seen the frame data and is specifically says 20F of start-up, whereas it was 17F before? Why can't there be both a dmg and start-up nerf? That reasoning makes no sense. And full charge does a hell lot more than just 200 extra. can u post the scan of the frame data or post a link to it, cuz i really want to see it pretty plz
BladeOfJustice7 Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Because I've seen the frame data and is specifically says 20F of start-up, whereas it was 17F before? Why can't there be both a dmg and start-up nerf? That reasoning makes no sense. And full charge does a hell lot more than just 200 extra. WTF?!!!! So 6c isn't faster, yea if that is true ryoko I'm REALLY pissed off about that. I mean REALLY pissed off i thought that 6/5c got faster i know 5c is and 6c got a damage reduction it thought that was because it's speed increased so as to balance it out, but all this time when i watch haku vids it seems as though his slash got faster. Why would they do a damage reduction AND slow down to the focal point (maybe not) to his dd bnb's. ARGH ryoko give me something to not be pissed about now with regards to hakumen. >_<
SimpleKiss Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 WTF?!!!! So 6c isn't faster, yea if that is true ryoko I'm REALLY pissed off about that. I mean REALLY pissed off i thought that 6/5c got faster i know 5c is and 6c got a damage reduction it thought that was because it's speed increased so as to balance it out, but all this time when i watch haku vids it seems as though his slash got faster. Why would they do a damage reduction AND slow down to the focal point (maybe not) to his dd bnb's. ARGH ryoko give me something to not be pissed about now with regards to hakumen. >_< ... 6C was never that good in CT. Outside of a combo component after gurren, it was kind of useless. THe move is slower and does less damage uncharged, but it's shitloads safer and still has godly priority. It removes a guard primer on block. Fully charged it does a shitload of damage and fatally counters on Counter Hit (And get launched the fuck up in the air.) You can tack on a fully charged 6C After a 6D instead of having to jump C, now. It's spacing dependent, but it adds a lot of damage. and you can dash in ->2.C -> Air combo because it will launch them in the air, Big Bang Upper style as a combo component. I don't know why you'd be so WTF about 6C's damage and startup, considering that hop forward 5b -> j.b -> J.2A -> J.C does more damage anyways (even if it had CT damage) after gurren. the move is still good for the niche it fills. I dont see how you could be pissed about CS Hakumen in any way.
ryokoalways Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 5D has 20 active frames, and 12F of recovery. From a practical point of view, it is a lot better.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 Wait, there's NOTHING you can combo into from 5d, but that's sick, 20 active frames. 5d is my FAVOURITE counter followed by 2d.
ryokoalways Posted March 11, 2010 Posted March 11, 2010 You can combo after RC. Gets worthwhile dmg in the corner. The 12F of recovery is far more amazing than the 20 active frames.
Sophisticat Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 How many recovery frames was it before? If you trust Zetaboards, 20f. I really like the change to 12f, I can't count the number of times I got punished for a whiff. Less recovery on everything is an excellent buff in any event. Really looking forward to CS Haku now.
SimpleKiss Posted March 12, 2010 Posted March 12, 2010 If you trust Zetaboards, 20f. I really like the change to 12f, I can't count the number of times I got punished for a whiff. Less recovery on everything is an excellent buff in any event. Really looking forward to CS Haku now. Trust me, You will love him. I can't even play CT anymore. Like, I refuse to play that game now.
AleXander Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 Risky but something to note is that m,ugen seems to have a fair amount of invincibility. I avoided point blank wakeup lichi DP with it. I'll have to test it to see if its invinc to other dp's brb
FullAutoDeath Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 12F recovery and 20F active? Goddamn, makes up for not being to combo after it. Any changes on 6D/2D?
BladeOfJustice7 Posted March 14, 2010 Posted March 14, 2010 12F recovery and 20F active? Goddamn, makes up for not being to combo after it. Any changes on 6D/2D? 6/2d have slightly extended in active frames by 2 frames.
TyrantShark Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 5D has 20 active frames, and 12F of recovery. From a practical point of view, it is a lot better. That's ultra sexy.
itsme Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 They made it so you can't combo off 5D. ;_; Not even 5D>Shippu?
ZONG_one Posted March 15, 2010 Posted March 15, 2010 Lol, so where can I find some combos? Haku board is so unorganized...
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