Articles about zoning, proper strategies for 'footsies', etc.

[Arvoyea]

http://www.shoryuken.com/content.php?r=40-Learn-Footsies-to-Make-Your-Ground-Game-Not-Suck

http://www.shoryuken.com/content.php?r=92-Three-More-Footsies-Articles

I read these articles on ground game strategy and footsies, and it helps me understand about my problems of not being able to play against other people. Even though it's written for Street Fighter, it can be applied to Guilty Gear. I feel more confident and can act better in Guilty Gear now, only Accent Core though. I'll always suck at #Reload.

Also, try this: Go to training mode, set the dummy to Maniac, turn off life regain for both characters, and beat the CPU without jumping more than once. Following this will probably force you to get a more in-depth look at your character's attacks, range, and help you with blocking. I don't know if it may work for you, I tried this out and it helped me well.

[Chrome Homura]

Well, I read all of those articles, and well... frankly I don't buy it. "Footsies" is a term applied to SF because last I checked they don't have to think about airdashes and your opponent being able block your "psychic" Shoryuken even if they're in midair. Jumping towards (or away from) the opponent is nowhere near as suicidal a tactic as it is in Capcom games. Thus there's a whole new slew of options for air to ground fighting that SF players don't have to take into account, but as GG players we must, that can pretty much negate the possibility of a large majority of the kinds of simple situations this writer describes. That's why you don't see pro GG players turtling as much (walking back and forth rapidly on ground? Yeah, that's turtling) It's plain unnecessary, not even taking Negative Penalty into account. But thanks for posting these anyway. Sometimes I need a good reminder of why GG is so much more awesome than anything else.

[4r5]

The expression is different, but the ideas are the same: control space, read your opponent. Jumping isn't as punishable as in SF (or even previous GG's), but a strong ground-game still goes a long way. Eddie can fuckin' fly, but you still see Eddie keep to (and sometimes in) the ground.

[qwerty]

airdash footsies > turtle footsies though of course what i really mean is upback > downback

[doragonkoroshi]

I think it still applies. Sure everything's faster and there are a ton more options at the disposal of you and your opponent, but if nothing else, the line of thought it puts forward is helpful. You still have to be aware of what your opponent can hit you with from where, what you can hit them with, and what beats their options. You also need to be able to program your opponent to react a certain way. You set up a block string or okizeme or other situation that looks like something you've done before, and then you break it off and go for something different. Mixups are all over GG. Have you ever seen somebody run up and then fd brake in Guilty Gear? That's footsies. You're trying to get them to throw out something prematurely so you can punish them. Maybe not every situation in these articles can be applied to Guilty Gear, but a lot of them can, even if you do have to stretch them a little. The answers to the situations also may vary, but I think it's a good read, if only to get you thinking about things more.

[Zinac]

Play alot of old SF (ST, A2,A3), then reads these articles. Then play some more. Apply the concepts. If your GG game doesn't improve after this something is wrong with you.

[qwerty]

play st no matter what, that game fucking owns and will make you a better player of any fighting game

[SuperKawaiiDesu]

airdash footsies > turtle footsies

though of course what i really mean is

upback > downback

i love you

[Arvoyea]

But thanks for posting these anyway. Sometimes I need a good reminder of why GG is so much more awesome than anything else.

I know GG is more awesome than Street Fighter. I believe GG is probably one of the best, if not, the best fighting games ever. I was just thinking this could help someone. It sorta works for me, because I'm trying to improve on my ground game so I won't be losing because I was doing stupid shit so many times.

And what does it mean if I suck at ST also?

[Chrome Homura]

Well, I was merely saying I don't feel it's very helpful (if at all) to most GG players. A lot of the terminology doesn't apply (that and "Footsies" is probably the most irritatingly stupid word I've ever heard) Hell, even during my occasional dabblings in SF4 I've won many a round doing hardly anything but retarded shenanigans, simply because the people I play with are that bad. And of course in GG If things look bad for me on the ground I can just take it to the air. Then again I don't play with actual people enough to really know what I'm talking about so actually disregarding everything I say might be a good idea.

[qwerty]

And what does it mean if I suck at ST also?

it means play it more

none of this sirloin romhack shit either, i mean straight up big bird brawl 94

[Nakkiel]

Footsies are very important in any good FG, even GG.

[rtl42]

not to rain on anyone's parade, here, but what's the point of the thread? is it just passing along/"advertising" (loosely speaking) advice from SRK? or was there a question that i missed?

[Hellmonkey]

Didn't read the articles in question, but "footsies" in GG work vastly differently than in capcom (or other) games from my experience. The freedom and variety in poking and movement for the GG cast, the different options on defense, and the fact that every character has at least decent pressure/okizeme really favors players that can play instinctively and fluid on either offense or defense. Probably the biggest difference between GG and most other fighters is the power of jumping, since jumping is very safe and leaves players with so many options. Unlike more restricted fighting game systems, having a good antiair normal or invincible move isn't necessary in GG to play ground to air, since throwing is so strong (to airthrow them coming in, or throwing them as they land) and backdashing/iad is very effective at quickly escaping danger or making someone whiff. You also have have the negative penalty system and meter gain from forward movement which eliminates most turtling seen in other fighting games. "Footsies" changes a lot depending on the level of play you talk about too, though. At the top level of play, maximizing damage and putting yourself in the best position (e.g. knockdown) is assumed and everything becomes risk/reward. One character can be played in many different ways effectively due to freedom GG's game system allows, which makes it much more fun for me than many other FG that leave you with one specific "best" option in almost every situation and strongly favors more conservative play.

[vedasisme]

I think that despite the slight differences incurred because of GG's game mechanics, we ought to know about these strategies. Just because there is an existing air game doesn't mean ground footies go away. There is simply a new layer added. If you jump carelessly in GG, you don't just have to worry about typical anti-air moves (although shoryuken still works very well). You can run under an aerial opponent, or you can air-throw them (this shit is TK'd all the time).

[Hellmonkey]

The thing is, worrying about these things is huge in restricted game systems but in gg getting your fundamentals up is so much more important any players looking to improve should focus on that first. You aren't going to get anything from concentrating on poking or on what your opponent is doing if you can't land your combos when you get a hit in and can't block well.

[Frank The Tank]

I have so many problems with the posts in this thread that I don't even know where to begin addressing them. TL;DR- Those articles are gold, especially for new players in any game, even GG. Footsies aren't restricted to the ground game, but they still exist on both the ground (think Jam 2S CH fishing) and in the air (You know that air move I do that all of you HATE? It's 100% your fault when you get killed by it, and that's footsies in action). Footsies are how you get counter hits, period. Take a good SF player, give him Potemkin and show him some shit, and he'll beat well over 50% of the people on this forum. Don't believe me? Justin Wong placed 3rd in GGAC at NEC in 2008. Why? Cause he knows how to play fighting games.

[Killerwatt]

I have so many problems with the posts in this thread that I don't even know where to begin addressing them.

Take a good SF player, give him Potemkin and show him some shit, and he'll beat well over 50% of the people on this forum. Don't believe me? Justin Wong placed 3rd in GGAC at NEC in 2008. Why? Cause he knows how to play fighting games.

Speaking as a veteran member of the SF scene I can attest to this; I have personally seen (and faced) Mr. Wong's Potemkin in a tournament and let me tell you: the man knew his shit. My long-term FG experience is Street Fighter, and I find that a lot of what I learned over the years comes into play in GG, just not in the same vein. SF builds the groundwork on a general level, and I find that coming to GG with said groundwork can prove productive when used appropriately.

[Hellmonkey]

All that shows is the poor level of players here in the us.. Any strong gg player knows how much matchup knowledge is required once you're beyond 5d, wakeup throw, slidehead mashing etc to victory. Potemkin happens to be the easiest character to learn basic combos/okizeme/gameplan as well.. In almost any new gg player's case getting basic movement (1f jump/backdash), hit confirming, and actually bothering to block will naturally allow them to develop their own playstyle better than worrying about something like footsies IMO. Once those fundamentals are there, players can start to put what they see in match vids etc into practice as well, easily the most effective way to improve without significant comp. (only after becoming comfortable with the huge amount of situational shit can a player really develop the flow in matches that gg footsies is all about imo)

[vedasisme]

You're both right, but I think you're talking about different layers of gameplay. Also, I'm against the idea that you can't learn footsies until you can block and combo. The fact that GG has double jumps and air cancels simply means that the air is now a viable place for zoning and turtling. In that sense, learning about footsies and zoning is a good idea, but I can appreciate the sentiment that many of the ideas in the articles are simply not applicable to GG.

[Hecatom]

"footsies" at the end are only a part of the spacing game on GG, of course they arent done or work in the same way on GG than sf, mostly because the diferent options that you have with the chars in both offense and defense, and movement, i agree with what Hellmonkey said, yet i kinda feel that we cant deny that there is importance on a good spacing game, specially for the bad matchups for certain characters like jhonny vs zappa, or chipp vs eddie, dunno you but i always felt that footsies or in this case spacing is combination of space control game, poking and zoning, and depending from the game this change, specially on GG where you need a good knowledge of the matchups, and im talking about experience against many players because of the liberty on gamestyles of the chars

http://www.nicozon.net/player.html?video_id=sm8470740

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGsbB0R6Dlg

just throwing this on the disscusion

[shtkn]

this seems like an interesting topic... maybe yeknom should write a "guide to GG footsies" to illustrate his point?

[Hellmonkey]

I think something like footsies in GG can only really be gone into depth on a character by character basis because of the diversity of the cast. The only general advice I'd give is to start by learning the system mechanics well, watch top level matches for your character and try to understand the reasoning behind what they do, and doing so finding your own "footsies" since what character you enjoy the most and what style of play you find the most fun will always be your most effective and fun way to play.

[qwerty]

Take a good SF player, give him Potemkin and show him some shit, and he'll beat well over 50% of the people on this forum. Don't believe me? Justin Wong placed 3rd in GGAC at NEC in 2008. Why? Cause he knows how to play fighting games.

take a deaf, blind guy with parkinsons, give him potemkin and he'll beat most americans. this is because potemkin strikes americans at their weakest point; their inability to block.

they think they're safe blocking midscreen then suddenly BAM slidehead. oh then they think they're safe at close range because you can block slidehead there and then BAM potbuster. then they're all like well i'll just float around like a gay fairy since i can't block and then BAM heavenly.

why do you think hot garbage like 3s got big here? because we don't want to wait our turn and block, we wanna mash shit out and win. it's in our primal american instincts to mash because we don't know any better, and when we do block it's at all the wrong times.

[Chainsaw Guitar]

Yeah, kinda impossible to block those things qwerty. I think the problem in that situation is bad spacing.