smooshman Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 so people what is the most accurate tier list by now, and is there a matchup chart that its updated? none, and no .....japan seems pretty complacent with the current one....
Hecatom Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 since i read a lot of this thread people posting random tierlist and readding how so characters should be X tier and other Y tier, i thought that there was at least something like a consensus of what is the current tier list :X
smooshman Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 since i read a lot of this thread people posting random tierlist and readding how so characters should be X tier and other Y tier, i thought that there was at least something like a consensus of what is the current tier list :X only consensus is Litchi>Bang and Tsubaki=Rachel, or is close to.
Hecatom Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 my game hasnt arrived yet (and yes i preordered it, dunno why its taking so long ) so i dont really have experienced anything at all, thats why im avoiding to participate on this thread until now bad to read that tsubaki is considered so low, since im interested on trying her also, how bad is Tager on this game, like CT bad, or is he improved, since he was the only char that i used on CT
smooshman Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 also, how bad is Tager on this game, like CT bad, or is he improved he's better.... he can actually win once in a while now. he's better than Rachel, Tsu, and Noel.
ZONG_one Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 Make your opponent guess wrong and you will win with Tager, unlike making them guess wrong in CT and still losing.
Henaki Posted September 2, 2010 Posted September 2, 2010 he's better.... he can actually win once in a while now. he's better than Rachel, Tsu, and Noel. noel is better than tager
mundus Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 some dude was telling me how hazama is now A+ tier...and I was like "whaaaa...?" is that actually true? did they discover some kind of new stuff about him? IB > Houtenjin does 5k + damage, not exactly new, but the most recent tier list is from like February or something, so anything is more accurate than that.
Fireryda Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 IB > Houtenjin does 5k + damage, not exactly new, but the most recent tier list is from like February or something, so anything is more accurate than that. almost 5k mid-screen. for most characters. character specifics go up to ~6k in the corner whether he is in or not, goes up to ~6k and he gets about 30-40 heat and oki which means he can pretty much do it again. and off some setups he can get almost 4k from a bnb. (corner 623D relaunch)
Asdferty Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 While his damage is super cool and IB houtenjin is ballin', Hazama's real high tier jump comes probably more from his options. He has so many tools, I don't even know why he has some of them. He has zoning tools, in the form of snakes and some long pokes like 3c and j.b He has the reversal of the century with houtenjin, and his flash kick from stance is also very respectable, along with being incredibly safe (even more so against airborne opponents) He has many different anti-airs, from fast like 5a to invincible like 2c and 214db, to long range with snakes and hunger coils He has very good pressure with 214da being safe on block and continuing pressure, and people are cautious about hitting him out of stance while risking a counter hit 214db, and very good dash 2a's His mixup game is phenomenal between having a normal overhead, a standing low, a stance for high/low, an invincible command grab, a crossup j.2c (and j.b), and fast 2a's for tick throws He has many different resets (lol america) because of his ability for increased mobility with snakes and command grabs He gets knockdowns from almost all his combos, and his meter gain is above average There is other stuff, but the point is that he has options for just about every situation, and it is very easy to find a tool Hazama has that can exploit a weakness in the opponent's character.
Nobus3r1 Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Make your opponent guess wrong and you will win with Tager, unlike making them guess wrong in CT and still losing. Hey it was fun guessing whether I'd get hit by the pumpkin, the frog or the lobelia first. It was even fun guessing how terribly the Carl or Arakune player could run it out there and still win.
ZONG_one Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Lol in CT? Sounds about right. As a CT Carl main, I must admit I didn't learn defense until CS came out.
Nobus3r1 Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Lol in CT? Sounds about right. As a CT Carl main, I must admit I didn't learn defense until CS came out. LOL. I know right. That's all in the past Tager is...still terribad. I know this is somewhat scrubbish on both players parts but Gadget Finger might as well be renamed 'Summon DP'.
HiagoX Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Lol in CT? Sounds about right. As a CT Carl main, I must admit I didn't learn defense until CS came out.
Black Onslaught Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 I hate Carl and by relation Zong so much.
ATGMantenbo Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 where do you guys think makoto would place in the tier list? I'd say top three. I will list the stuff that would make her place top three IMO ..... please feel free to disagree and correct me if I'm wrong her jabs are insanely prioritized and safe. her j.2C is safe on block and leads to free pressure afterwards and hard to punish on IB. parry that comes out in 1F .. semi reversal IMO and a good AA option. has ragna's AA. fullscreen projetile that takes a primer. Big Bang .. comes out in 2F ..... I wouldn't mind that if the inputs were like litchi's All Green but BB inputs is mad easy to pull off on reaction to counter a move or even some characters' jabs that are recovering
DC Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 She'd be top 3 if the current top 3 didn't exist.
sergetrigger Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 where do you guys think makoto would place in the tier list? I'd say top three. I will list the stuff that would make her place top three IMO ..... please feel free to disagree and correct me if I'm wrong her jabs are insanely prioritized and safe. her j.2C is safe on block and leads to free pressure afterwards and hard to punish on IB. parry that comes out in 1F .. semi reversal IMO and a good AA option. has ragna's AA. fullscreen projetile that takes a primer. Big Bang .. comes out in 2F ..... I wouldn't mind that if the inputs were like litchi's All Green but BB inputs is mad easy to pull off on reaction to counter a move or even some characters' jabs that are recovering I don't think her parry comes out on frame 1.
Seifuuku Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 she seems to have bad mix up options, so far, but i am probably wrong about that
Arifureta Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Hazama stuff: For midscreen, tech towards him: eat 2A/2B. Tech away: (maybe) eat 3C. Neutral tech: (maybe) eat (command) grab. Forced to block (or DP the fuck out (and then get baited)). Quick tech: (maybe) eat 2A/2B. Forced to block. In corner (and you'll probably be in corner eventually. His BnB has a pretty good travel time), tech towards him: eat 2A/2B (or option select Jayoku apparently). Tech away: Eat 2A/5B. Neutral tech: (maybe) eat (command) grab. Forced to block (or DP the fuck out (and then get baited)). Quick tech: (maybe) eat 2A/2B. Forced to block. He's all about his knockdowns really.
pulsr Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 My random thoughts on Makoto and Mu. I think Mu is greatly restricted by her inability to do damage from her BNB (think CT bang) basically, she has everything she needs but it just doesn't work on everyone. So I'd place her B/B- As for Makoto, I think she has a pretty strong change of ending up in the A tiers mainly because once you get the hang of PC your high/low game becomes crazy destructive and your pressure becomes absurd. Don't forget once you get the hang of PC every hit you do turns into a 5-6k (minimum) damage combo. Her immediate downfall will be how she gets in though. While she does have 3C, she more or less can't really do much but run at you and hit some buttons. I got lazy so my post will stop now.
ryofoong Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Mu's matchup against Arakune hurts because he needs to be attacked for his zoning to work. Does that make any sense? But other than that she doesn't seem to have to power to be anything above B tier. She lacks BNB damage and doesn't combo well off normals (from what I've seen). Though, that's just what I think. Makoto can do bajillions of damage from her parry cancels and her mixup isn't bad at all. I'd say A- tier at most, though, since she can't really approach in any way. Though, her cross screen guard primer breaker or "Don't go to this area for 2 seconds" move is pretty intense.
ZhePrime Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 where do you guys think makoto would place in the tier list? I'd say top three. I will list the stuff that would make her place top three IMO ..... please feel free to disagree and correct me if I'm wrong her jabs are insanely prioritized and safe. her j.2C is safe on block and leads to free pressure afterwards and hard to punish on IB. parry that comes out in 1F .. semi reversal IMO and a good AA option. has ragna's AA. fullscreen projetile that takes a primer. Big Bang .. comes out in 2F ..... I wouldn't mind that if the inputs were like litchi's All Green but BB inputs is mad easy to pull off on reaction to counter a move or even some characters' jabs that are recovering Nowhere near the top, that's for sure. She has 4 very good moves, 5A, 2A, j.2C and Big Bang Smash. In addition to that she has mediocre damage (only impressive damage comes from the loop), poor mixup, short range and no poke's. She's Ragna light. I think Mu is greatly restricted by her inability to do damage from her BNB (think CT bang) basically, she has everything she needs but it just doesn't work on everyone. So I'd place her B/B- Her matchups consists of mountains (ex. vs Tager) and valleys (ex. vs Bang) so she's around mid-tier I'd say yeah. With a few tweaks she'll be fine. As for Makoto, I think she has a pretty strong change of ending up in the A tiers mainly because once you get the hang of PC your high/low game becomes crazy destructive and your pressure becomes absurd. Don't forget once you get the hang of PC every hit you do turns into a 5-6k (minimum) damage combo. Her immediate downfall will be how she gets in though. While she does have 3C, she more or less can't really do much but run at you and hit some buttons. I got lazy so my post will stop now. Her high and low game is pretty horrible, but with PC it's okay. She has a couple of very strong points about her, but she's hunkered down by the rest, her weaknesses. I'd probably place her at high B maybe. Though, her cross screen guard primer breaker Jump? It's a very slow attack. If people can react to Act Parser then people should be able to react to Makoto's projectile at Lv3, I know this because I can.
HiagoX Posted September 3, 2010 Posted September 3, 2010 Wow, people overestimating Makoto. A lot. Nowhere near the top, that's for sure. She has 4 very good moves, 5A, 2A, j.2C and Big Bang Smash. In addition to that she has mediocre damage (only impressive damage comes from the loop), poor mixup, short range and no poke's. Actually, her damage output is pretty good even without the Parry Loop. With it, the output becomes shit crazy.
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