BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[Afrikaan]

lol dude, just stop now.

[Alzarath]

what are hazama's weaknesses? Please list them, and explain your reasoning.

[Kristoph]

you are literally begging someone to troll and ruin this thread even further than they already have

[Skye]

Hazama's mixups.

Mediocre?

They aren't you know.

Tager's mixup is mediocre.

[redsilversnake]

what are hazama's weaknesses? Please list them, and explain your reasoning.

His pressure is weak, largely because his only good ground normals are 2A and 5B. Even if you manage to start a decent blockstring, you have to be more cautious than with most other characters if you attempt mix-up, since he can be punished for it pretty easily.

When being pressured, his only real option is IB>Houtenjin, and even then, it's not that hard to bait. Even if you have enough to RC it, you've just blown full meter for next to nothing.

His normals have sub-par range, which puts him at a disadvantage at mid-range, especially since his chains have negligible hitstun at that distance.

There's more, but I can't recall it off the top of my head at the moment.

[smooshman]

His pressure is weak, largely because his only good ground normals are 2A and 5B. Even if you manage to start a decent blockstring, you have to be more cautious than with most other characters if you attempt mix-up, since he can be punished for it pretty easily.

When being pressured, his only real option is IB>Houtenjin, and even then, it's not that hard to bait. Even if you have enough to RC it, you've just blown full meter for next to nothing.

His normals have sub-par range, which puts him at a disadvantage at mid-range, especially since his chains have negligible hitstun at that distance.

his pressure is okay if you can use it right, but I agree his defensive game is pretty weak meterless.... but that's about it. Really Hazama just owns neutral game, and with practice, can be a MF on offense.

[redsilversnake]

his pressure is okay if you can use it right, but I agree his defensive game is pretty weak meterless.... but that's about it. Really Hazama just owns neutral game, and with practice, can be a MF on offense.

Yeah, Hazama's at his best when the game's neutral thanks to being able to zone the majority of the cast effectively. For offense, though, you'd have to play him contrary to his playstyle (that is, pure, psychotic rushdown), and it doesn't seem that a lot of players are willing to do that. Though, I would be interested in seeing what people could do with j.B and IAD j.2C.

[Henaki]

hazama is literally good at everything in the game besides having a small space where his moves arent as great. he is fundamentally the strongest character in the game.

[redsilversnake]

hazama is literally good at everything in the game besides having a small space where his moves arent as great. he is fundamentally the strongest character in the game.

Indeed. And Rachel is A+.

[GenoWhirl]

The problem being that Hazama actually has tools to be good

[smooshman]

hazama is literally good at everything in the game besides having a small space where his moves arent as great. he is fundamentally the strongest character in the game.

actually Bang is, above average *blahblah* [everything]

Hazama is just has incredible tools for his type (glass cannon [arguably], and zoner), he can zone you AND handle you at close range, offensively he's incredible, defensively he's average, he's got 1 good 50 meter reversal, and below average guard primers with average-ish health....

he's just got more tools than he needs (command grab for a zoner, and a safe blockstring ender, really?), and the tools he has for his job are good (chains and shit)

kinda reminds me of CT Jin, just a little too good at everything. Honestly he's very solid, and IMO is close to the "goal" for the character balance in BB, perfectly fit for the job he does, sorta like Ragna in that sense, just a few minor nerfs and the lower characters buffed.... but now I'm rambling.

[Zidane]

Like... who are you guys?

I'm not asking for your track record or whatever the hell you've done in any fighting game, but what the fuck? When did it become fine to just post completely wrong information? Smooshman, you're not as bad as that other guy but please don't talk about Hazama. When you don't even know if a move of his is overhead or not, please don't talk about that character. Just a friendly heads-up.

"Contrary to his playstyle" and "Rachel is A+ tier" is rofl though. Sarcasm only works when you're right you know; when half the thread ( the competent posters that is ) and recent japanese tier lists tell you you're wrong, you're wrong.

[smooshman]

I'm not asking for your track record or whatever the hell you've done in any fighting game, but what the fuck? When did it become fine to just post completely wrong information? Smooshman, you're not as bad as that other guy but please don't talk about Hazama. When you don't even know if a move of his is overhead or not, please don't talk about that character. Just a friendly heads-up.

.

curses I've been seen through.

yeah I'm a jin player and I've only played hazama a little, the only real thing I can say with an absolute certainty is that fighting him is obnoxious.

[farranpoison]

curses I've been seen through.

yeah I'm a jin player and I've only played hazama a little, the only real thing I can say with an absolute certainty is that fighting him is obnoxious.

Then don't post.

Again, Zidane for top tier.

[Spirit Juice]

Like... who are you guys?

I'm not asking for your track record or whatever the hell you've done in any fighting game, but what the fuck? When did it become fine to just post completely wrong information? Smooshman, you're not as bad as that other guy but please don't talk about Hazama. When you don't even know if a move of his is overhead or not, please don't talk about that character. Just a friendly heads-up.

"Contrary to his playstyle" and "Rachel is A+ tier" is rofl though. Sarcasm only works when you're right you know; when half the thread ( the competent posters that is ) and recent japanese tier lists tell you you're wrong, you're wrong.

Get out of this thread and go back to being at home and sad that Pozer lost at SBO quals. Nigga.

[Afrikaan]

hazama is literally good at everything in the game besides having a small space where his moves arent as great. he is fundamentally the strongest character in the game.

That's a strong statement, and from what Zidane's brought up, I'm almost inclined to agree.

That said, you really think he's Top 3? He's definitely not better than Bang or Litchi, so he's competing with the like of Arakune and Ragna for that honor. I think the way Japan plays I can see him being better than Ragna, but Japan makes Arakune like pretty fucking godlike too.

[Henaki]

ragna is overrated, arakune has uphill fights vs 4 characters, id put them in the same tier as carl.

hazama does everything (everything!) well, he has absolutely no glaring weaknesses. a character has to have no fundamental weaknesses or their gimmick must be so overwhelmingly powerful it just beats everything to be s tier. all of the s tier fit the former (litchi bang hazama).

[Ai]

hazama is literally good at everything in the game besides having a small space where his moves arent as great. he is fundamentally the strongest character in the game.

To be honest, I think this small space is actually larger and more detrimental for Hazama than most people think.

When Hazama is just pretty much out of his close poking range (5b for example), he is limited to his Stance A, Stance C, or 3c moves to try to poke for combos. The thing is, these are not completely safe on block. To make matters worse, in this range his drive moves lose nearly all of their hit and counterhit stun, and he has extremely low mobility while only depending on his "dash" hop.

Also while Stance B can be a powerful tool, if you compare it to Ragna's Inferno Divider it starts to look very weak. Stance B has 8 invincibility frames and is limited to the ground, where Inferno Divider has 21 to 19 depending on C or D versions, and can be used in the air. Both of their moves are on unsafe on block.

While some may think comparing it to Inferno Divider may be a little unfair, I felt it still demonstrated my point that Stance B is not the god-send move that some may be describing it to be. But rather, Hazama is pretty much dependent on using it to do his heavier damage mid screen.

Edit: Replaced Hotenjin with Stance B... I need more sleep... sorry...

[qwerty]

everyone in this thread is playing blazgreen

[smooshman]

While some may think comparing it to Inferno Divider may be a little unfair, I felt it still demonstrated my point that Hotenjin is not the god-send move that some may be describing it to be. But rather, Hazama is pretty much dependent on using it to do his heavier damage mid screen.

altenatively you can compare it to hirensou, which gives similar effects (massive damage) has 15 IF's 100 p1 (and it's a DP), air unblockable, costs half the meter (but that's not fair), and it's second hit can be unblockable giving it many gimmicks.

overall Hayoku is really, really good for it's job, but all things considered it's a bit overrated.

I mean it gets beat clean by Jin's C/D Dp's and IIRC ID.

[DaiAndOh]

To be honest, I think this small space is actually larger and more detrimental for Hazama than most people think.

When Hazama is just pretty much out of his close poking range (5b for example), he is limited to his Stance A, Stance C, or 3c moves to try to poke for combos. The thing is, these are not completely safe on block. To make matters worse, in this range his drive moves lose nearly all of their hit and counterhit stun, and he has extremely low mobility while only depending on his "dash" hop.

Also while Hotenjin can be a powerful tool, if you compare it to Ragna's Inferno Divider it starts to look very weak. Hotenjin has 8 invincibility frames and is limited to the ground, where Inferno Divider has 21 to 19 depending on C or D versions, and can be used in the air. Both of their moves are on unsafe on block.

While some may think comparing it to Inferno Divider may be a little unfair, I felt it still demonstrated my point that Hotenjin is not the god-send move that some may be describing it to be. But rather, Hazama is pretty much dependent on using it to do his heavier damage mid screen.

Stance A unless IB'd is safe, and maybe safe if IB'd. If Level 2, is safe. 3c would be gatling to stance. Hazama can either through out overhead, wait for you to approach into a flash kick you PROBABLY can't punish, if you don't he exits the stance.

But thing is, Hazama can basically choose what space to fight in 99% of the time. So a little mid range space issue is laughable to him.

Who cares btw how many invincible frames Jyaku has? Unless you're gonna die, it always trades in Hazama's favor and he gets 5k and builds his meter back while you sit there wishing you could bang your head into a wall....

....or burst, and he still gets what, 3kish off of that?

[Ai]

Sorry, I may have made a little mistake with my post with putting Hotenjin where

"Stance B" should of been... lets just say I need a little sleep...

Stance A unless IB'd is safe, and maybe safe if IB'd. If Level 2, is safe. 3c would be gatling to stance. Hazama can either through out overhead, wait for you to approach into a flash kick you PROBABLY can't punish, if you don't he exits the stance.

But thing is, Hazama can basically choose what space to fight in 99% of the time. So a little mid range space issue is laughable to him.

Who cares btw how many invincible frames Jyaku has? Unless you're gonna die, it always trades in Hazama's favor and he gets 5k and builds his meter back while you sit there wishing you could bang your head into a wall....

....or burst, and he still gets what, 3kish off of that?

Hazama can definitely choose his space in terms of fighting long range and short range, but in choosing his exact distance short range is where the trouble comes in. Where you're one step away from your opponent, or three steps, is really completely based on the flow of the two players. Nobody can stay the exact three steps away from their opponent at all times, of course players can try to be there as much as possible. This is where Hazama's short range mobility limitations greatly hinders him in my opinion. Most likely their opponent has a lot greater control in controlling short range distance due to Hazama's short hop dash.

Also in terms of me saying Stance A, Stance C, and 3C being unsafe on block, I should of just said "unsafe". Since these moves are slow and predictable and can be easily interrupted. Stance A, Stance C, and 3C can be mashed out of since they are slow and their graphic is obvious.

Where you are certainly right is, Hazama has amazing damage potential (regardless if we're talking about Stance B, or Hotenjin) off these moves. But it's what gives him his heavy damage mid screen, when compared to say Ragna's +4k combos regardless of screen position.

Sorry on my extremely poor wording in my original post. Maybe I should go to sleep now.

Edit: Replaced Stance D, with Stance C...

[Hateraid Red]

i don't think anyone posting in here is good enough to play this theory game we're all so fond of.

seriously, can any of you guys (exempt the few that are decent) IB ... anything?

This thread along with a few others are getting out of hand. why not spend all this energy on getting better so it actually applies.

[Henaki]

i don't think anyone posting in here is good enough to play this theory game we're all so fond of.

seriously, can any of you guys (exempt the few that are decent) IB ... anything?

This thread along with a few others are getting out of hand. why not spend all this energy on getting better so it actually applies.

i just IBed your post

[dragontamer]

Also in terms of me saying Stance A, Stance C, and 3C being unsafe on block, I should of just said "unsafe". Since these moves are slow and predictable and can be easily interrupted. Stance A, Stance C, and 3C can be mashed out of since they are slow and their graphic is obvious.

Erm... are we playing the same game here?

I'm no Hazama player... but in my experience against him... I feel that Hazama's 3C is a frame trap which happens to be low. You'll definitely not beat it if you just mash jabs, especially if Hazama is using it in a blockstring (say... 2B -> 3C)

Stance A and C have 19 frames of startup. Sure, I can react to them and block in time, but unless the opponent is being a bit predictable I wouldn't be confident in my ability to react to that and attempt to jab him out of it. Hell, we don't see Pros reacting to slower overheads with Inferno Divider or Jabs. Not even Pro Hakumens react to overheads with 6D 100% of the time, and many overheads are slower than 19 frames.

Attempting to punish Stance before A/C comes out seems too risky to me: Stance B will just counter-hit you into a combo. And punishing A/C during its startup just seems unlikely to me.