ATGMantenbo Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 A really interesting aspect about tier lists to know .. in fact, I have always noticed there was something wrong or not fair about mirrors but not sure what it was especially since CS came out .. like Ragna's mirror is a lot easier than Litchi's and Ara's. I would like to suggest that Litchi's mirror is 4:6 if not 3.5:6.5 due to the fact that one combo is 85% of the time, enough to end the round, so whoever lands the first combo first, gets a huge advantage just like Ara's curse. I like to think of Ara's curse and Litchi's combos as the same if you know what I mean; both lead to huge damage and Litchi's lead to inescapable oki which may potentially turn into another combo possibly ending the round. Personally, I find Litchi mirrors very difficult but jin mirrors is a lot easier it seems; I play both chars BTW. someone correct me if I'm wrong; that is if my opinion matters at all. Also, I'd like to hear Zidane's opinion on the Hazama mirror.
C0R Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Litchi A: 4-6 Litchi B: 6-4 (4:6)+(6:4)=10:10 1.0 Stop forgetting about player two.
KayEff Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Stop forgetting about player two. he's a litchi player, that's kind of what he does
farranpoison Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Litchi A: 4-6 Litchi B: 6-4 (4:6)+(6:4)=10:10 1.0 Stop forgetting about player two. you also forgot: 10/2:10/2 = 5:5. It's not rocket science, people. Though for DL I suppose it may well be.
ATGMantenbo Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 he's a litchi player, that's kind of what he does and the japanese Ara forgot the other Ara because he's Ara right? good god .... sigh these numbers are not win/loss ratios .. they are difficulty ratios .. correct me with logic if you think I'm way off instead of posting dumb shit
Eshi Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 No one's arguing that players actually have a physical disadvantage/advantage in mirror match-ups. I think the point jiyuna's getting at is that mirror matches have to be gauged by an entirely different metric. Just listing them all as 5/5 doesn't do them justice because some of them (like arakune) are REALLY screwy. This really doesn't matter though because there are other way more obvious issues with the match-up chart... though as others have pointed out that won't matter either soon.
Zidane Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) Also, I'd like to hear Zidane's opinion on the Hazama mirror. I.. you... MY HEART IT ACHES Edit: DAMN YOU JIYUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Edited November 5, 2010 by Zidane
KayEff Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I'll explain why mirror matches are 5:5 through LOGIC. Your argument is saying that because one Litchi can do massive damage to another that the matchup should be 6:4 or whatever. Here's the thing: matchups are under the assumption that both players have the same amount of skill. This means that while one Litchi can do a 85% combo, the other would be just as capable. Same with Arakune; if one Arakune's able to curse another, the other Arakune has the abilities to do the same, as well as the same capabilities if under the assumption that they both are at equal skill. In layman's terms, in mirror matches both characters have the same moves, therefore the same tools, therefore the same gimmicks, therefore the same strategies, therefore the same type of gameplay, and therefore the same matchup. [/edgeworth]
Mumm-Ra Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 these numbers are not win/loss ratios .. they are difficulty ratios .. It can't be more difficult for you than for your oppoent since you're using the same damn character, you might as well be posting dumb shit at this moment, why is it so hard for you people to get it? if it were difficulty-wise then the matchup number format (x-x) doesn't even make fucking sense in this case, you'd have to use some kind of difficulty ranking (SS, S, A, etc.), wich is dumb shit. Also japanese people aren't gods or something.
HiagoX Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I.. you... MY HEART IT ACHES You have so many fans. How do you feel about that?
Zidane Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 HE ASKED ME ABOUT A 5-5 MATCHUP. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THAT? *breath* JIYUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
SansProtocol Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Hello Dustloop. Look at your tier list, now back to me, now back at your tier list, now back to me. Sadly, your tier list will be outdated in a month. But if we stopped talking about this and switched to a new topic, we could realize that this tier list doesn't matter. Look down, back in a month, where are you? You're in this thread, with the match-up list this list will be like. What's in your game, back at me, it's an update for that thing you love. Look again, the thread is now awesome. Anything is possible when you realize that this discussion is pointless and being right won't matter in the end. I'm now a post.
farranpoison Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 (edited) and the japanese Ara forgot the other Ara because he's Ara right? good god .... sigh these numbers are not win/loss ratios .. they are difficulty ratios .. correct me with logic if you think I'm way off instead of posting dumb shit Your logic consisted of in a Litchi mirror, a Litchi will have a hard time against the other Litchi because Litchi's tools are so good vs herself. Well guess what? The other Litchi is feeling the EXACT SAME THING. Look. An Ara vs Lambda matchup is 3:7. Why? For Ara, the matchup is 3:7. For Lambda on the other side, the matchup is 3:7. ((3+3)/2) : ((7+7)/2) = 3:7. Order of operations is hard, I know, but you're all past fifth grade now so I'm sure you'll get it. Litchi vs Litchi is, like someone said before, 4-6 for one Litchi, and 6-4 for the other Litchi. Thus, ((4+6)/2) : ((6+4)/2) = Goddamn 5:5. Sure, the mirror is difficult. Hell, certain mirrors may make it 8-2 for each player. But again, using basic math, it will always average to 5:5. What we've said before is WE KNOW certain mirrors are more difficult than others. That doesn't give you the right to make arbitrary matchups where you act like it's only you playing and not TWO GODDAMN PEOPLE. We can say that certain mirrors are harder than others. Ara mirrors >>> Ragna Mirrors or Tsubaki Mirrors, sure. But all mirrors will statistically still boil down to the average, which is 5:5, and ALWAYS 5:5. This has been basic math/statistics class with Farranpoison, please pay your tuition or gtfo. Edited November 5, 2010 by farranpoison
KayEff Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I think he's confusing mirror matchups with ranking mirror matches, but I wouldn't know.
HiagoX Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 HE ASKED ME ABOUT A 5-5 MATCHUP. DO YOU WANT TO KNOW HOW I FEEL ABOUT THAT? *breath* JIYUNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA That's the right answer. Hello Dustloop. Look at your tier list, now back to me, now back at your tier list, now back to me. Sadly, your tier list will be outdated in a month. But if we stopped talking about this and switched to a new topic, we could realize that this tier list doesn't matter. Look down, back in a month, where are you? You're in this thread, with the match-up list this list will be like. What's in your game, back at me, it's an update for that thing you love. Look again, the thread is now awesome. Anything is possible when you realize that this discussion is pointless and being right won't matter in the end. I'm now a post. +357 for you.
A.X.I.S. Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 I want you all to stop posting...except for zidane.
ATGMantenbo Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 ROLF I go eat for 15 mins and come back and ZOMG I'll reply to you guys in a min .. Also Zidane wtf, I officially love you now
Skye Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Hello Dustloop. Look at your tier list, now back to me, now back at your tier list, now back to me. Sadly, your tier list will be outdated in a month. But if we stopped talking about this and switched to a new topic, we could realize that this tier list doesn't matter. Look down, back in a month, where are you? You're in this thread, with the match-up list this list will be like. What's in your game, back at me, it's an update for that thing you love. Look again, the thread is now awesome. Anything is possible when you realize that this discussion is pointless and being right won't matter in the end. I'm now a post. Shout outs to Team Four Star. This thread should be renamed to "BB:CS Get a Good Quote to Sig".
Mumm-Ra Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 My input on Arakune mirrors: Arakune vs. Arakune: 5 - 5 Arakune vs. Cursed Arakune: 9 - 1 Cursed Arakune vs. Cursed Arakune: V̸͗ͧ̓͛̌̕͏̟C̴̼͈̫̮̫̹͉͙͂̔̈́͂̓O͈͎̹̗̹ͦ̒̂̆́̀R̞͈̯̭͙̱̥̮͐̓͟͜f̴̧̨͎̑̔ͥ̏ͫ̽̀ę̷̫̰̺̮̼̘͓͌͟r̸̤̟͙ͭ͛ͧ̈e̵̛̛͚ͦͅģ̷̝͇͉̳̳͚̖͙͆ͬ̄b̜̝͔̒͐̆̀͋́̚h̜͓͕̘̬̙͑ͥ̀̀̀͠"̘̙̬̳̪̻ͪͫ͒̎͛ - ̦̖͙̺͔͓̥̜̼͛ͤͥ͆ͮé͔̪̹̩̗̩͐̏͡ͅg̭̭̹͐ͤ̏͜Ṿ̧̭̰͌̓ͫ̓͂̈́̋́͘R̪̥͍̙̗ͫ̐͒̔Ȅ̡͉̦̥̣̖͑ͫ͊h̴͉͍̤̺̦̩̩̞ͤͫ̔̃̔͊̎͌͜t̨̲̘̟̲̞̮̰̳̄̄͛́̎͟ȟ̝̱̗͎͈̑̃̂͟͡ͅV͙̘̖͖̰̫̘͇͗̈́ͤͨͬͅ4͓͙͈͓ͨ̿͂͌́̽͗̓̉Ȩ̜͙͓̬͈̮͖ͥ̉͑ͯ̈́͟͞R̛̫̫̝̳̼̲̝̂ͩ̆͒̊ͫ͢V̨̙̂͐̉̈́̚͢͠
OmniSScythe Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Can we go back to real match up discussion? Good. I'm honestly believe Makoto vs Jotaro is an 5:5 match up, see JO has an time stop super where he can just beat on you for a few seconds. (broken I know) But MK also has that smash everything punch that not only stops time but also burns all your barrier meter if you hold it, so it evens out the whole range thing. Also Makoto also got not 1 but 2 overheads so you can't really expect to block them both unless your god and can block AND react.
HiagoX Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 There's no such divine being in this world capable of blocking AND reacting, so I'm calling it: It's a 6:4.
farranpoison Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 Can we go back to real match up discussion? Good. I'm honestly believe Makoto vs Jotaro is an 5:5 match up, see JO has an time stop super where he can just beat on you for a few seconds. (broken I know) But MK also has that smash everything punch that not only stops time but also burns all your barrier meter if you hold it, so it evens out the whole range thing. Also Makoto also got not 1 but 2 overheads so you can't really expect to block them both unless your god and can block AND react. But what about dat Dio, man? He's got knives and sucks blood and doesn't afraid of anything. And see, he has a steam roller, which automatically means Makoto loses, being a squirrel and all. I'd have to say a 12:-5 in Dio's favor, no lie.
advancedNoob Posted November 5, 2010 Posted November 5, 2010 This thread is pure win! Aracune is so broken that even he himself can't handle them shenenigans XD.
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