Mizzet Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 I actually have a question. Is there any benefits/uses for Noel CT 5C being a "new" move in her CS Drive mixups? I managed to find some good use for it against crossups from characters like Tao and some Ragna's move (abeit under strict timing) If you're referring to what is now her drive 5a (shoots both sides), the one use I've gotten out of it is the fact that it comes out very very fast. Knowing this, it's a good in between move to transition relatively safely from your blocked drive attack to things you use to exit drive state like 4d 236c, 5b, 5b 236d. Case in point, I was fighting a Rachel who was consistently punishing me for blocked drive > (drive) 5b attempts, tried 5a and it came out fast enough to either counterhit her or keep her blocking. It's also the only move other than 623d that's fast enough to hit and keep a combo going after (drive) 5c hit to SJC9 j.d. Example combo, 2d 5d 6a 6c 5c SJC9 j.d (land) 5a 6a 6c 214a [3666] The whole (drive) 5c SJC9 j.d series of combos is made possible solely because (drive) 5a is so fast in CS, so that's one use I guess. Edit: Guess I should mention that the Noel analysis is pretty spot on.
kilabeep3 Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Bad matchups: Dora’s Bang hahahahaha i think thats a bad matchup for anyone.
smooshman Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 hahahahaha i think thats a bad matchup for anyone. except Kaqn's Ragna, then it's 50-50
MisoSowee Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Has anyone found value in Haku's counter gatlings? I was wondering if it might impact on his tier placement. To me it feels like a cherry on top instead of a vital component.
Dacidbro Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Makes Hakumen rape gaurdpoints really hard, and you're going to have a hellish time IB supering him, other than that not that much.
SimpleKiss Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Has anyone found value in Haku's counter gatlings? I was wondering if it might impact on his tier placement. To me it feels like a cherry on top instead of a vital component. Against bang players that don't know about your normals cancelling into drive, it can be very valuable to use 2A to bait his counter then cancel into 2D for a catch. Other than that, it's interesting but I haven't found a use for it yet.
JinSaotome Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 it has no invincibility frames. Not exactly. Frames 1-8 are invincible, the problem is you have to wait 6 frames for stance to be cancelable. Longer if you wanna charge it. :[
smch Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Yea, not having invincibility didn't sound right to me all. From what I can tell, 214D~b beats out a ton of aerial moves, so I don't see how it is a poor man's anti-air. The move is fantastic. Hazama should have a B in "against air" at least imo.
JinSaotome Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 The reason its not amazing is because you don't have instant access to it (see: Ragna 6A, CT Jin's A Fubuki), all of them require a fair chunk of time to throw out. His Anti Air overall just suffers from not being fast enough to be effective from midscreen and closer, unlike Lambda, per se. While they're not fantastic, they're fairly reliable and lead to great damage. C+~B-, IMHO.
FlyingVe Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 You can cancel 214D~ after 6 frames, which isn't much worse than ragna's 6a (which is invulnerable after 5) In Hazama's case 214D~B the problem is, if you block it, you can punish hazama hard (similar to jin's DP's). Whereas other AA's are much safer. For example, Ragna's 6A can be jump canceled and has gattlings.
JinSaotome Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 Ah, I see! I thought Ragna was invuln starting from frame 1~3 area, my mistake. :3 As far as punishing goes though, wouldn't that not be a problem in an AA situation? unless they landed short and then IBed, maybe.
kro_ Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 Keep in mind that against air covers both ground-to-air and air-to-air situations. Hazama has terrible air-to-air. His best option here is something like jump back j.b and hope for a CH into super. Ground-to-air is different though. I find myself mainly using 5a as an AA with Hazama since it hits high, comes out fast, and combos into 5c 4d regardless of counter hit for an easy 2k dmg and meter gain. 214D~B is great because he moves backwards while doing it. When used as AA, it doesn't give the opponent much time to get a good punish (if they can punish it) because of the distance and the time it takes for them to land after blocking. It sucks as a reversal or against grounded opponents though. 6d is a great anticipatory AA at a distance. If you can read when your opponent will airdash, you will land tons of damage. The obvious counter is to simply run in and 5b him, but if you're fighting one of those opponents that likes to jump up and down and airdash right before landing, 6d is one of the best tools at dealing with it while remaining relatively safe if you whiff. But having good AA options doesn't mean much if you can't make the opponent feel like he has to jump to get in on you. This is his main problem, imo. Threat of random jayoku is the only thing that prevents people from pressuring him endlessly on the ground.
Skye Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 Isn't his j.b better though? j.c seems a bit risky because of it's range.
Jwallz Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 I've noticed Hazama's 2C is a pretty good AA. It acts like Ragna's 6A, and Hakumen's old 6A
smch Posted April 6, 2010 Posted April 6, 2010 From what I can tell, J.C has more range than J.B, if not the same. And I agree, 2C is a good anti air. You only have to worry if you whiff it, which is hard to do considering it has a pretty sizable hit box.
Wolf Pup TK Posted April 8, 2010 Posted April 8, 2010 From what I can tell, J.C has more range than J.B, if not the same. With Hazama? No way. j.C has excellent vertical range, but I don't think there's any way it's got the same horizontal reach as j.B.
severin Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Someone clearly has never played an F tier character.
Ben Reed Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 This thread should be stickied, IMO. Would probably help deflect a lot of threads about "OMG WHO SHOULD I PLAY???!?!?!??!1" Any chance we'll see updates for the DLC jerks?
Sylari Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 And I agree, 2C is a good anti air. You only have to worry if you whiff it, which is hard to do considering it has a pretty sizable hit box. Can you follow up an AA 2c with his DP?
BigRedMoose Posted August 10, 2010 Posted August 10, 2010 l played Servbot in mvc2. Yeah. ....I have infinitely more respect for you now.
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