C0R Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 I meant as in, that's a lot of command laser. It was amusing to me because I'm conditioned to not use it in that match-up near at all, even though Spark is probably the only guy who will 6d everything on reaction. Hey, if he's not going to stop it, no reason for you to stop using it.
cookiehours Posted July 17, 2011 Posted July 17, 2011 I meant as in, that's a lot of command laser. It was amusing to me because I'm conditioned to not use it in that match-up near at all, even though Spark is probably the only guy who will 6d everything on reaction. Hey, if he's not going to stop it, no reason for you to stop using it. Yeah, that's true.
SolarMisae Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 If someone is gonna let you do something there is no reason not to keep doing it. But yeah, don't get in the habit of using that against every Haku you come across. Habakiri is the better option. 4D and 6D and staying faaaar away from him is you best bet.
pochp Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Some advice for cookie or anyone else who is starting to use Mu. About the command laser, you know it starts off going to the latest one and then it goes through them in reverse order, right. So, to maximize it's efficiency, I try to remember how far apart my steins are when I place them, and always keep in mind either "close" or "far". So if the last one I put was "close", next one will be "far", and vice versa, I also try to use 236D only if the last one was "far". A practical example: combo into 5C 6C 6D SoD. I think "far", so if I do 5D 6D 236D afterwards eventually, I get a way more efficient command laser than if I would have gone just 6D 236D instead. Now that was a pretty basic example, but this helps me get a good result when I start moving around a lot, and then in your head you often have to replace "close" by "far" just because of positioning. Lol, having typed that out, I realize it might be simpler to remember "left" and "right" instead But daaamn, it really pisses me off that at a certain distance the laser stops tracking steins. I know where I place them, I know it's not coming back, I cross my fingers anyways, and I'm disappointed when I don't break my opponent's combo gustaff fire style. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go in training mode, go to both corners of the stage, place steins, and then use 236D. Also, just some gimmick I started using this week, blockstring (2A 2B 5C 236A dash)xN. N being the number of times you think you can get away with it, it pushes them towards the corner a good enough distance that it's worth using one or two times. It's far from airtight, but the window to escape it is kinda small. However, it's probably not a good idea to use it against tager or hakumen. And finally, something I'd like to know, what are you guys' options at the beginning of a match or any advice concerning this? Against lots of people I usually chose between IAD back j.D/j.236A, 5C, sj back, but recently I feel like sometimes I almost just lose the match because I start badly and my opponent is suddenly in my face.
Zeromus_X Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 And finally, something I'd like to know, what are you guys' options at the beginning of a match or any advice concerning this? Against lots of people I usually chose between IAD back j.D/j.236A, 5C, sj back, but recently I feel like sometimes I almost just lose the match because I start badly and my opponent is suddenly in my face. It can be annoying to get nicked at the start of the round and then you never get a chance to start up. I always have to tell myself to back off, react, and not overcommit. I usually like to start with 2B, 5C, or 236A, depending on the character, sometimes even SoD (reasonably safe from round start distance, and if they jump/don't barrier/don't block they get knocked away for you to start up). Against overaggressive players or characters with good round start options (ex. Tsubaki 22X, Ragna 5C, etc) I'll play more reactively. Walk back, backdash, IAD back, and react to what they do. Sometimes I'll be more aggressive and mix it up with dash forward 2A/2B/5B/6A. If they're really predictable I might try to yomi IAD airthrow, jump up/back jC, or even 6C fatal.
cookiehours Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 Some advice for cookie or anyone else who is starting to use Mu. About the command laser, you know it starts off going to the latest one and then it goes through them in reverse order, right. So, to maximize it's efficiency, I try to remember how far apart my steins are when I place them, and always keep in mind either "close" or "far". So if the last one I put was "close", next one will be "far", and vice versa, I also try to use 236D only if the last one was "far". A practical example: combo into 5C 6C 6D SoD. I think "far", so if I do 5D 6D 236D afterwards eventually, I get a way more efficient command laser than if I would have gone just 6D 236D instead. Now that was a pretty basic example, but this helps me get a good result when I start moving around a lot, and then in your head you often have to replace "close" by "far" just because of positioning. Lol, having typed that out, I realize it might be simpler to remember "left" and "right" instead But daaamn, it really pisses me off that at a certain distance the laser stops tracking steins. I know where I place them, I know it's not coming back, I cross my fingers anyways, and I'm disappointed when I don't break my opponent's combo gustaff fire style. If you don't know what I'm talking about, go in training mode, go to both corners of the stage, place steins, and then use 236D. Also, just some gimmick I started using this week, blockstring (2A 2B 5C 236A dash)xN. N being the number of times you think you can get away with it, it pushes them towards the corner a good enough distance that it's worth using one or two times. It's far from airtight, but the window to escape it is kinda small. However, it's probably not a good idea to use it against tager or hakumen. And finally, something I'd like to know, what are you guys' options at the beginning of a match or any advice concerning this? Against lots of people I usually chose between IAD back j.D/j.236A, 5C, sj back, but recently I feel like sometimes I almost just lose the match because I start badly and my opponent is suddenly in my face. Thanks for the advice. I believe I have to get better with the steiner placements. Her combos, I got pat down but steiners is the one thing I gotta work on.
Pestilence Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 And finally, something I'd like to know, what are you guys' options at the beginning of a match or any advice concerning this? Against lots of people I usually chose between IAD back j.D/j.236A, 5C, sj back, but recently I feel like sometimes I almost just lose the match because I start badly and my opponent is suddenly in my face. I do the reverse super jump IAD into 236A against the majority of the cast. (236A is awesome against Ky because it destroys his freezing projectiles and isn't absorbed in the clash) If it's against Lambada I'll go for a 5B or 662B because Lambada can out zone me so take the opportunity to get in close while it's there. If it's against Tager I'll backdash (because even SJRIAD can get you knicked in the escape) If it's Hakuman, I'll actually do a double back dash (this is a good setup for those that chase because you can go into a 6A, SJ.A,B,C,2C, 236A, 44.) Against Noel and a few other I feel safe against I'll open with SoD. I think it's good to throw in a random 623C shell every once in a while. It's pretty safe and beats out a lot of stuff + sends your opponent flying.
C0R Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I walk for a bit, maybe poke with 2b, block a lot. 5c is a good bet against certain characters, but not as reliable as dash 2b, 236a can also be good in certain matchups. Stein placement is very risky, in any form, 5c stein cancel, sure, with cover, sure, but do your best to avoid throwing one out in footsies.
TD Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 press taunt and let my opponent get the combo. (l'm a bit of a sadist when it comes to mu, hehe...) l mean, mistakes do happen in fights that cost you a hell of a lot of pain (shoelaces untied, hair in the way, slice yourself by a mistake with your sword etc). my mu's visor is just too big - i'll have to get it replaced eventually. when she's not worried about sight, then it's backdash, 5c, iabd, or 5d iabd.
SolarMisae Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Depends who I'm fighting...and it's usually Tsubaki. She's got her 22x as a match start option and you risk a CH combo right at the beginning of a match if you don't pick what to do carefully. If I'm feeling risky I'll trying to do a dash 2B and hope I poke her out of it. And either backdash and set up a stein, or set out 236A. or IAD/SJ IAD into j.236A or a stein. if I feel REALLY gutsy and don't expect her to use a 22x 5C. But 5C is a good opener in general...but no matter who I'm fighting I usually go for either a back-dash, IAD back into a stein or habaya or dash 2B.
Pestilence Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 curious, why do you guys go for dash 2b instead of dash 2a?
SolarMisae Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) 2B has much better reach so you don't have to dash as far and you can sorta slide with it. Edited July 19, 2011 by SolarMisae
Aginor Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 2b has more reach, only 1f slower than 2a and it's neutral on block so you can use it to stagger.
pktazn Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 How should you approach your opponent in general as Mu?
Pestilence Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 I was using 2a because I can poke with it multiple times and still be able to cancel it into something else. What are some of her best mixups with normals? I would assume 2b 6a j2c? ...but I eat shit during j2c start up a lot when I use it outside of combos so that mixup is more theory than practice.
SolarMisae Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 How should you approach your opponent in general as Mu? Under the cover of lasers/explosions, or run in with Habaya. Basically only run in if they're blocking. You don't wanna approach without coverage. She's a zoner/spacing character, make them come to you.
C0R Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Try to avoid jumpins until you get a handle of stein timings, you basically want to lock them down with zoning until they leave themselves open, then go in for unpublishable mixup under cover, at least for the more basic stuff.
pktazn Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Got it. I don't usually play zoners so I knew I was doing something wrong lol.
Aginor Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 Don't worry about it. It takes a while to get used to.
André Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 C0R, about your point of Mu for top 5...could you elaborate a bit more?[You wrote a little about it on page 124] It's very interesting.[At least, I think.] Also, how would you guys rank Mu's match-ups from Worst to Best?
C0R Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) To be honest André many people in my scene consider both Jin and Noel to be B+, A- tier, and we have very skilled representatives for both those characters. While it can be agreed that both Makoto and Hazama are super strong, I would say following them are Rachel, Mu and Litchi in the upper area of the A teir, or more accurately, the S- tier. If you mean actually fleshing out Mu's specific strengths as a character, I could write for quite a long time, but it would be much simpler to say that she possesses the ability to do things that no other character can do. Theoretically, if a Mu player used steins to their maximum potential, every normal would be +8-12 on block, she would be able to perform impossible combos, such as meter-less airthrow stuff, and so forth. Edited July 22, 2011 by C0R
C0R Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 I dunno, our resident master Tao player dropped her for wolf because she's just not impressive to him anymore. I would equate Tao's strength to be nearly identical to Litchi's.
André Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Tao is not impressive anymore like in CS1. I'd say that the nerfs to her Drives[Repeat Proration and j.D shortened distance] and the lost of Taunt loop hurt her bad. j.8D loop gets her lower damage than Taunt loop, from what I saw. Unless I'm wrong and didn't see her better damaging viable options. But that's just the opinion of a BB player that never played against someone because he don't know anyone who plays BB. So I don't know if my point can be considered 'valid'. I make my conclusions based on what I read [And sometimes from what I see from watching videos]. Also, Mu meterless airthrow stuff would be done with Ame no Totsuka already out and would require strict timing? Edited July 22, 2011 by André
Zeromus_X Posted July 22, 2011 Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Imo: Best: Tager, Carl, Arakune (But you still have to put in some work...I'd hardly call them "free" matchups) Good/Evenish: Ragna, Jin, Rachel, Litchi, Bang, Lambder, Hakumen, Tsubaki, Valkenhayn, Plat Evenish/Bad: Tao, Hazamer, Macowtoh, Noearl (Tao is annoying, and I don't think I need to really explain the other three characters...) I don't think Mu has any truly "bad" matchups...certainly not like CS1. You might have to adapt or play differently in them, but it never feels like I don't have an option or a different way to handle the matchup. Mu can play very lame against the derp tier characters and is consistently threatening once she gets the advantage. I think that's the real selling point of this character. Of course, I'm still learning the matchups and there's a lot of characters I haven't played against enough "good" players for to get truly comfortable with them. (Taokaka, Litchi, and other Mus especially) Edit: oh god ninja'd x4 Edited July 22, 2011 by Zeromus_X
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