[CS1] Mu-12 General Discussion Thread

[Aginor]

There's always next year! :D

[C0R]

I really wanted to play you at evo, but I didn't see any mu's outside of zeromus maybe I should have drank less beer and worked more on finding casuals

I saw your match with JasonD, good stuff, would have liked to play you. :<

[YukiBlue]

Best Combo from a 5C start, And CH 5C?

OR just the one you use, really. Im still on beginner mode.

5C > 6C > 6D > SoD > 214D

[C0R]

I actually like to poke with 2c at the start, they nearly have equivalent hitboxes, except 2c will catch them jumping at you, and the reward is much higher for a very small increase in risk.

Additionally, 2c doesn't extend her hitbox into the next dimension, so will actually trade favorably and won't get poked out.

[YukiBlue]

I thought the 2C hitbox was much smaller. I'll give that a go since 2C CH is pure rape.

For reference though, If you land a 5C in the game, CH included, what do you do?

Edited August 5, 2011 by C0R

[C0R]

5c 3c RC 6a 5c 6c habacan...

5c 6c RC 6b...

5c 6c 632146d...

5c 6c 5[d] IAD...

5c 6c 4d 6d 236d...

List goes on, you need to pick the best option for the match you're fighting, depending on what you need.

[YukiBlue]

Truth, Truth. The more I play I realise Mu isn't "That" bad up close. I find 5C > 6C > 4D > 6D > 236D/214D just happens to be my favourite. When used correctly I can imagine lasers are rageworthy.

Still smile when I charge a 5D and my opponent lands a huge combo starter (Jin's 6C) only for the laser to prick them and halt the combo in it's tracks.

Much appreciated C0R

[pochp]

There's also 5C 6C 6D32146D... (6B 6A j.2C 2B etc.) when you get an air hit on 5C. That's what I do whenever I have the meter to followup. The damage and corner carry are so great.

Off a 5C starter midscreen, in my opinion, it's always a good idea to use meter and get a real combo out of it if you can.

Btw instead of doing 5C 6C 6C SoD 214D, you should try 5C 6C 5D SoD dash 6D 214D. Once you get the good timing for it, the 5D will combo into 214D (if it hits). It's also super effective against drive-teleport happy bangs, because they will appear in your face in your 5D's explosion. A Blazblue equivalent of a happy birthday. (just don't do it if they have access to astral, it will land)

A charge laser trap I used to do in CS1 but haven't tried yet in CS2 was 6C 5D 6[D] dash 6C whiff. 5D keeps them from punishing too early, and if they go for a big punish, 6[D] gets you a sweet counterhit. kinda like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPXtoil-Kc8#t=30m35s (not sure how it would work with the new laser timings)

[YukiBlue]

Got my first Mu related ragequit today.

Glorious.

[Namagomi]

Hi. Former Hakumen player who's been tempted to switch to Mu-12 after one too many frustrating matches against Lambda--partly since the poking game is similarly comfortable, and partly because the offense is a bit easier to get going. I'm wondering if this is a good choice to begin with, or whether or not I should go through with this or if I should instead look elsewhere for a character selection on the back of what feels like a near-vertical learning curve and a glut of RTSD Ragna/Tsubaki players making me feel like I'm the demonstration tool in a combo video.

[YukiBlue]

Hakumen is Defensive, Takes his time and plays his best when he takes advantage of the opponents mistake.

Dare I say, Mu pretty much plays like that, too. With time and patience, and a good understanding of the Matchup, Mu can be really dangerous. Give her a go, I fell in love with her playstyle. And doing 5.3K damage Midscreen from a Counter-Hit 3C makes you feel gdlk. Same for doing 9K in the corner.

Pick her if you like Unique characters with plenty of Oki opportunites. Great zoning, a great damage output, Decent Mid range and gdlk Anti Air. Pick her.

She dies pretty quick though. Just Ragna without HP steal. Her Mixup is pretty lame, Too.

+ With correct placement. Her steins can cause some unbelievable damage on Oki.

Edited August 6, 2011 by YukiBlue

[StarGazer]

i will unbox my mu12 today and hit the training with her because i took some serious psychological damage from haters for playing makoto

she doesn't look hard but am afraid of the combos it seems i must change them depending on the starter and proration but her game looks fun

any tip on combos will be appreciated before starting

[YukiBlue]

Do challenge mode. It teaches you everything you need to know to move onto some more optimal combos

(Well, Really it teaches you everything you need to know.)

Edited August 6, 2011 by YukiBlue

[pochp]

Hi. Former Hakumen player who's been tempted to switch to Mu-12 after one too many frustrating matches against Lambda--partly since the poking game is similarly comfortable, and partly because the offense is a bit easier to get going. I'm wondering if this is a good choice to begin with, or whether or not I should go through with this or if I should instead look elsewhere for a character selection on the back of what feels like a near-vertical learning curve and a glut of RTSD Ragna/Tsubaki players making me feel like I'm the demonstration tool in a combo video.

The Mu vs Lambda matchup is also very frustrating in my opinion. If this is the only reason for the switch it's not worth it. Mu's pokes are also inferior to hakumen's pokes, just go compare the sprites, the hurtboxes on Mu's moves extend way more. At first you will also often feel like you're getting combo video'd, it takes some time to get used to placing steins in safe situations and cancelling their placement into the right thing.

However, Mu is very enjoyable if you're playing her correctly, and her combos are relatively easy and hurt a lot, and she has many options at any given point. My tips if you're starting out is to not place steins outside of combos/setups (use 236A/j.236A instead), not use j.C as an air-to-ground move unless it's a punish (ex: tager whiffing a 360), don't use 6C outside of combos/pressure, and specifically for the lambda matchup, dash->barrier->react is what you should do.

i will unbox my mu12 today and hit the training with her because i took some serious psychological damage from haters for playing makoto

she doesn't look hard but am afraid of the combos it seems i must change them depending on the starter and proration but her game looks fun

any tip on combos will be appreciated before starting

Yup, start with the challenge mode, so you know how to do the tricky things in combos, and then read the following. Most challenge mode combos are decent iirc, but none of them are optimal.

You basically only need to learn 3 corner combos in the corner to get started, there are specifics that add a bit of damage once you get used to it, but these will give you decent damage and oki for the starter. There's the overhead one (6B SoD 6A j.2C dash 2B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 5C 2C sj.2C...) and throw one (go in the combo thread, find the one you like the most, they're all very close in terms of damage), which have a different proration so they're both unique. Then there's the normal starter one which is (3 moves (5B 5C if possible) max into, or for 2C CH you go into j.C j.2C into)...SoD 6A 6B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 5C 2C sj.2C... (whatever setup). Off a bad starter like 2A this is the optimal combo you do 3k, off an average starter like 2B you do 3.5k, off a good starter like 5B you'll do 4k, add 3C 632146C for a super ender which adds 1.1k. (for 214D either use the challenge mode's or go to the combo thread)

For midscreen, it's pretty simple as well. On standing, any gatlings into a C move into SoD, on crouching any gatlings into a 6C (...setup). Any air to air hits, confirm into j.A/j.B j.C j.2C dash 2B 2C 6C habacan (214D whiff, recovers faster) 6A 6B 5C 6C (...setup) for decent damage and oki. Anti-airs, though, each one (5A, 6A, 2C) has a specific combo so you'd better check the combo thread because someone finds a better one every few weeks. For RC combos, go whatever into 3C RC dash 6A 6B 6A j.2C dash 2B 5C 6C (...setup), but you can't get a decent RC combo off of 6B easily. For a super ender, just use 632146C after the final 6C of your combo for an additional 1.1k. Throw is dash 6A 5C 6C habacan 6A 6B 5C 6C....

General tips : always delay from 6A into 6B, always super jump 2C into j.2C, if your midscreen combo carries to the corner before the end, you can often go into SoD 2C j.C j.2C or something like that, for extra damage and oki, but this depends a lot on proration so you need to get a feel for it. (however often the opponent won't tech the final j.2C which is sometimes blue in this case)

Edited August 6, 2011 by pochp

[StarGazer]

The Mu vs Lambda matchup is also very frustrating in my opinion. If this is the only reason for the switch it's not worth it. Mu's pokes are also inferior to hakumen's pokes, just go compare the sprites, the hurtboxes on Mu's moves extend way more. At first you will also often feel like you're getting combo video'd, it takes some time to get used to placing steins in safe situations and cancelling their placement into the right thing.

However, Mu is very enjoyable if you're playing her correctly, and her combos are relatively easy and hurt a lot, and she has many options at any given point. My tips if you're starting out is to not place steins outside of combos/setups (use 236A/j.236A instead), not use j.C as an air-to-ground move unless it's a punish (ex: tager whiffing a 360), don't use 6C outside of combos/pressure, and specifically for the lambda matchup, dash->barrier->react is what you should do.

Yup, start with the challenge mode, so you know how to do the tricky things in combos, and then read the following. Most challenge mode combos are decent iirc, but none of them are optimal.

You basically only need to learn 3 corner combos in the corner to get started, there are specifics that add a bit of damage once you get used to it, but these will give you decent damage and oki for the starter. There's the overhead one (6B SoD 6A j.2C dash 2B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 5C 2C sj.2C...) and throw one (go in the combo thread, find the one you like the most, they're all very close in terms of damage), which have a different proration so they're both unique. Then there's the normal starter one which is (3 moves (5B 5C if possible) max into, or for 2C CH you go into j.C j.2C into)...SoD 6A 6B 6A j.2C j.D 2B 5C 2C sj.2C... (whatever setup). Off a bad starter like 2A this is the optimal combo you do 3k, off an average starter like 2B you do 3.5k, off a good starter like 5B you'll do 4k, add 3C 632146C for a super ender which adds 1.1k. (for 214D either use the challenge mode's or go to the combo thread)

For midscreen, it's pretty simple as well. On standing, any gatlings into a C move into SoD, on crouching any gatlings into a 6C (...setup). Any air to air hits, confirm into j.A/j.B j.C j.2C dash 2B 2C 6C habacan (214D whiff, recovers faster) 6A 6B 5C 6C (...setup) for decent damage and oki. Anti-airs, though, each one (5A, 6A, 2C) has a specific combo so you'd better check the combo thread because someone finds a better one every few weeks. For RC combos, go whatever into 3C RC dash 6A 6B 6A j.2C dash 2B 5C 6C (...setup), but you can't get a decent RC combo off of 6B easily. For a super ender, just use 632146C after the final 6C of your combo for an additional 1.1k. Throw is dash 6A 5C 6C habacan 6A 6B 5C 6C....

General tips : always delay from 6A into 6B, always super jump 2C into j.2C, if your midscreen combo carries to the corner before the end, you can often go into SoD 2C j.C j.2C or something like that, for extra damage and oki, but this depends a lot on proration so you need to get a feel for it. (however often the opponent won't tech the final j.2C which is sometimes blue in this case)

thanks a bunch

i was missing around in the training and i found out that after a 6B CH i can tip dash into 5A or 2A

i found it intresting since i get a lot of CH with 6B also it easy to confirm the 6B since it comes out slow

iv been finishing my combos with 3C 5[D] cross up IAD j.C to switch sides

habacan doesn't seem that hard... i hardly miss any in extreme lag

Mu12 mobilty is super fast i keep taokakaing all the match and rush in with j.b and 2b and cross under them all the day

jin and hazama match up is stupid with there solid safe options and range its by far the hardest match ups.

while i was scared from makoto it turned out to be extremely easy match she hardly touched me while i keep up on smacking her and locking her all the match for perfects, however although noel plays like makoto she raped me why?... idk:sweatdrop:

as for bang he is scary until he lose his nails (just make sure he is not in FRKZ after the nails hits the zero) still his nails are useless if you are pressuring him

thats all what i have from this long juicy day:toot:

Edited August 6, 2011 by StarGazer

[Namagomi]

The Mu vs Lambda matchup is also very frustrating in my opinion. If this is the only reason for the switch it's not worth it. Mu's pokes are also inferior to hakumen's pokes, just go compare the sprites, the hurtboxes on Mu's moves extend way more. At first you will also often feel like you're getting combo video'd, it takes some time to get used to placing steins in safe situations and cancelling their placement into the right thing.

Learned that matchup the hard way, though thanks. Mind, you're right; when I'm doing things right, Mu is amazing fun to play. First netplay win against a Ragna ever, and I admit that the hilarity of opponents being too hasty to remember the laser coming from offscreen isn't something easily forgettable. Or lacking in hilarity for that matter.

Guess I should heed the advice when it comes to combo practice at one point or another, as much as I've never had too much luck thus far with that.

Still might just sub Jin or whoever'd be a decent counterpick against Lambda out of sheer petty spite, though.

[SolarMisae]

Mu's combos aren't hard, but playing her right is. She's probably one of the most difficult characters to learn in the regard. Like pochp said, it takes awhile to get a feel for when you can put steins out safely. Without her steins to defend her she becomes a bit of an easy target. You'll get stomped over and over again when you first start off playing her because she's a very thought heavy character, one you have to know inside and out to be effective with her. You really gotta know how far all her normals extend and know what distances are safe to poke from. You gotta know where your steins are at all times too. If you're not careful you can actually screw up your own combos if you're not paying attention to where your steins are.

Theres also a lot of making shit up on the fly and adjusting to the proration when you pick things up off of various laser hits and explosions. This is another thing that makes her hard, because you really have to get a feel for when something will work. It's real easy to blackbeat if you try to do too much stuff off of random hits, so knowing her move proration is also really important.

That being said, if the only real reason you're thinking on switching is just for the Lam matchup, don't bother with Mu. She's a character that takes a lot of time and dedication to play right. She has SO much stuff to learn, and still so much stuff we don't know (*cough* Hey C0R where dat stuff you promised? )

And this one may not really be truth, but my own personal opinion on her...to me, Mu isn't a sub character. She is a main, because you WILL spend more time figuring her out than any other member of the cast. After months of training, countless casuals and lots of time I still feel like I'm a Mu newbie. I know people do sub her but unless you spend a great deal of time with her she's never gonna be up to par imo.

My 2 cents. :3

[C0R]

As knowledgeable as my peers and competition may consider me to be, it pales in comparison to what I can foresee in the character's future. The character has too much capacity, I imagine it will take a long, long time for someone to truly master the character.

[SolarMisae]

Definitely. She's just got so much potential to be amazing, this character is hype beyond explainable levels.

[StarGazer]

so what about 6b Ch > 662A? i see it as a smexy link when am midscreen... other than that i guess a straight SoD near corner is far more better

Edited August 7, 2011 by StarGazer

[BloodyRootBeers]

Totally Random, but extending a mid screen SOD with command laser is sooooo satisfying.

[YukiBlue]

Mu for SSS+ Tier next Update.

Also, Baiting bursts with Mu = Round win.

usually they have 2 primers. MU wades through primers. This gets me out of some many awkward situations if 6B is blocked. SoD right through them for the guard break, or hit them for 5K Cornerbound.

[bakahyl]

Using SoD after a 6b is really unsafe on block even used on barrierguard and some characters can simply hit you out of SoD with a dp or a fast reversal like in tager's case a 720.

Edited August 7, 2011 by bakahyl

[StarGazer]

after you knock someone down lock him with lasers then while he is locked fully charge you SoD to take out two primers and its safe on block

[pochp]

Using SoD after a 6b is really unsafe on block even used on barrierguard and some characters can simply hit you out of SoD with a dp or a fast reversal like in tager's case a 720.

I've been thinking a bit about this recently, it's a case of risk vs reward IMO. If your opponent is in the corner and you cancel 6B into SoD against characters that don't have a reversal or don't have access to it (staffless, meterless), you get to gamble. 6B is a level 4 attack, so 18f blockstun, SoD1 is 19f startup but -10 on block, SoD2 is also -10, SoD3 becomes +3 and SoD4 is +7. So your opponent has to chose between trying to punish you for it with a normal, jump out or just block.

If you SoD1 and they block, you're at neutral with them (because nobody know how to fight mu), but if they chose to punish or jump, you get a huge combo. If you think they'll block at first, you hold down SoD and then when you think they'll crack and jump, release the SoD, and if you got level 3-4 and they didn't jump, you're at frame advantage, and have many options to restart pressure. So overall, the risk is losing the corner and eating a 1.5k combo, while the reward is either going back to the same situation with less primers, or almost winning the game. The better your read on your opponent, the better this becomes.

Midscreen however, the risk/reward is against your favor though, so you're better off rarely using SoD after a blocked 6B, it becomes a more like a gimmick. Backdash/block/jump/2A instead. (yes, 2A, even if you're at -1, if you feel your opponent is greedy and will go for a slower move, or still afraid and will keep blocking. Don't 2A after an IB lol, because it usually means they know what's up)

(the same goes for cancelling other normals into SoD on block, but you're usually better off cancelling into xD or 236A after having pushed your opponent to a distance where he can't punish the startup. 6B keeps your opponent close and can't cancel into xD)