TD Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 you could just 6b - nothing. it's only punishable point blank and only punishable with 5a, and it has to be ib'd for that to happen. the benefit of nothing is that it is completely safe on block and baits bursts as well if it hits.
FlyingVe Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 Actually, it's -1 on block in CS2... so it's never punishable... ever.
C0R Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Hmm, my cs2+ wishlist... 70% character prorate, down from 80% 91 p2 on 5c, down from 94 90 p1 on Totsuka blade, down from 100 90 p1 on Ame no Habakiri, down from 100 Decreased untechable time on 2c CH, no longer linkable into 5c(w) 5c Decreased untechable time on j.c CH Increased untechable time on j.b CH, linkable into land > 2c at most heights Increased untechable time on Stein hits, noteably CH, for both charged and uncharged Enlarged/Lowered 5b hitbox to hit recoiling and crouching characters at most ranges 70 p2 global throw increase, up from 50 Reduce both startup and recovery of Totsuka blade, guaranteed on frame 38, total time 44, similar to Ame no Habakiri Level 3 2b, up from Level 2. Increase active frames to 6 from 4, effectively changing frame advantage to +1 from neutral, also removing 2b's status as a weak link and increasing effectiveness as a meaty Return Counter Assault to original 5b, with new hitbox, retain blowback property effect Maybes New normal in the form of a deep jumpin, can also be used for effective fuzzy setups New super that places steins in a set configuration, a means for meter that isn't more raw damage mid-combo Edited August 8, 2011 by C0R
FlyingVe Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I wouldn't wish for any damage or proration changes until we see what the other characters look like. My biggest Mu peeves have always been the 5B hitbox whiffing (as you mentioned), and the 6B hitbox making juggles wonky on some characters.
SolarMisae Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) Awesome list C0R. :3 I REALLY like the idea for the super... Edited August 8, 2011 by SolarMisae
C0R Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Awesome list C0R. :3 I REALLY like the idea for the super Soul Satellite would be the best. I wouldn't wish for any damage or proration changes until we see what the other characters look like. My biggest Mu peeves have always been the 5B hitbox whiffing (as you mentioned), and the 6B hitbox making juggles wonky on some characters. 6b character specific timing is something that can be overcome through small adjustment, unlike other character specific combos which simply don't hit Valkenhayn or the like. As for the prorate, yo she does too much damage, even in comparison to very strong, offensive characters like Litchi, Valkenhayn and Makoto. She's a hybrid zoning character with noncommittal and safe options. Low risk, high reward is usually the sign of an imbalance, look at Makoto.
SolarMisae Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I really, REALLY want the Soul Satellite super. However many steins you have out at the time and all, it'd be so good...
FlyingVe Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 You can do the 6B juggles, but I just don't see the value in making them weird on some characters, it's not like a slightly taller 6B hitbox would change the utility of the move.
C0R Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 You can do the 6B juggles, but I just don't see the value in making them weird on some characters, it's not like a slightly taller 6B hitbox would change the utility of the move. From what I know it's actually more an issue with the opponent interacting with the hitbox, rather than the other way around, maybe they'll make it easier next game, like they did in the CS1>CS2 transition.
YukiBlue Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Okay. Unapologetic here, But I need some really basic help. I was somewhat confident with my Mu, But recently it's just been getting worse. I played Someonewhodied who is a pretty good Lambda, and regardless of the Matchup he just slapped my shit all game. I think I'm just failing at zoning (Happens when I right anyone, Really), I'm not sure what I should be doing all the time. I'm comfortable Mid/Close range within SoD range. I can fight there. But long range, where the lasers and her Zoning apparently rape face? I suck. I'm not sure what the best course of action is. I can think on the fly, and take into account what my opponent and i can do at any given moment, but it doesn't help I suck at using the lasers to the potential they can achieve. TL;DR - Best way to use lasers, when to use them, charge the laser? Also, How do you play Mu? Could you just sum it up? Keep away? P.Aggressive? I just need pointers, really. I could be doing a lot better than I am at the moment.
SolarMisae Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 You honestly can't really outzone Lambda since her swords have hitboxes as soon as they're out, but steins don't. Get in her face. She's super weak up close. Other then that, your lasers go full screen....her swords don't. Mu in general isn't JUST a zoner. She can RTSD with good coverage and her lockdown is AMAZING done right. Gah, I'm not good at explaining this kinda stuff though..I'd say to sum it up in just a few words is impossible. She's just such a complicated character. I'd say she is a combination of both keep away when needed and heavy pressure/lockdown when you set stuff up right. Using steins right is also matchup specific sometimes... Eh I'm bad at examples so someone else will probably be much more capable of explaining this.
YukiBlue Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I understand she isn't just a Zoner, her Damage output is insane. And she is pretty versatile, too. It's just when my opponent is out of range, Take Ragna for example. I can really stop him from just Loldashing straight towards me. I can stop him from landing a hit, But I can't really make him work for it, if you get me? Sure I can Anti-Air and stop him doing what he usually does. It's just dem' lasers. I'm not using them like I should. Cheers for the reply.
SolarMisae Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 (edited) You outrange him by a lot. Totsuka Blade is good when used with multiple steins on the field, use that. It keeps characters like Ragna immobile, and he's already got limited approach options. If he tries to just run in at you can 5C him (know the range of this move, it's awesome) and make him respect your ranged normals. Habaya is also a good "keep the hell away from me" move and can buy you extra time to set up stuff. I fight against Tsubaki frequently, who is much faster than Ragna. Her approach options are better. You need awareness of your steins too. If you're doing a blockstring and you push them into a stein, blow it up to snatch a primer and you can dash in and keep pressuring. Make your opponent realize that ANY mistake will cost them big time. Make them AFRAID to just "run in" at you. Mu messes with people's heads. CA, DP, all good ways to throw opponents off of you. She plays defensively and offensively. Steins keep you safe but also set up GREAT offense. Edited August 8, 2011 by SolarMisae
YukiBlue Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Much love for that post Solar. I use 5C a load, Great move really. Again, thanks.
pochp Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 I'm not sure what the best course of action is. Think about it like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vybIP-DBQio#t=1m You have to know when and where you're allowed to place a stein, when you're allowed to airdash in, and when you should 6C. What I do is stay between midscreen and fullscreen and mix dash-barrier and random jumps to dodge her swords. When you see lambda whiff a D, if you're far, place a single stein, if you're on the ground, use 236A, if you're close enough, dash/airdash in for a punish or pressure. If you see them use 214D(-C) or 236D and are in range for a 6C, do it. Once you're in their face, use a lot of stuff like 2B 5B 5C 236A blockstrings to push her towards the corner and keep her there. Mix it up with 2A 2B 5B 6B also, heck if you feel greedy, cancel a blocked 5C into 236D if you have steins to resume pressure "safely". About the ragna matchup, for example, let's say you get him to block a 5C, know what you're going to to with it. For example, you can cancel it into a 5D, IAD back, j.236A, land and evaluate the situation, if stayed on the ground, use 236D because your habaya is covering you, if he jumped forward, wait to punish his jump in, if he backdashed, you can be a bit greedy and go 5D 6D (if he's still far enough) 236D, and then go back in for another mixup, preferably with a slide in max range 2B 5B into either 6B/3C. Slowly push him towards the corner if he respects you too much or bait him into a corner by backing up, safely sending out a 236D and going to the other side of him. If you have the life lead, it's up to him to make something happen, and you just have to take advantage of his mistakes. Just don't corner yourself without a plan. And don't autopilot into setups like the one above without knowing when you should react.
StarGazer Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 whenever i get pinned i use CA her DP doesn't have ID range :/ but still at the right time for dp i throw it once in a while and RC if blocked
Zeromus_X Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 ^This is pretty much how I prioritize her options under pressure as well. Smart mash at the right time can be good too, just don't get exposed...
Aginor Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 TL;DR - Best way to use lasers, when to use them, charge the laser? Also, How do you play Mu? Could you just sum it up? Keep away? P.Aggressive? I just need pointers, really. I could be doing a lot better than I am at the moment. Answer to all of those questions is, it depends on the match up. Consider your opponents options and your options. What character does your opponent play? What type of style do they play? What are their habits? Like I said, it really depends on the match up. For example, against hazama the people I play with like to use wake up jayoku or wake up something. So that forces me to play safe and play more of a neutral game against my opponents. I can't tell you how to play her because it will end up hurting you in the end imo. Everyone has their own way of playing the character and you just have to develop that style. --------------------------------------------------- And Mu's DP is still really good for what it is...I don't blame arc sys for not giving it more range. Also, whenever you're "pinned", why don't you just try to block instead of always using your dead angle or DPing? It actually forces you to actually block and get better on defense. Then strike when you see an opening or reset the situation by teching a throw.
FlyingVe Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Nope... Always DP... Always... Go big or go home... scrub... :)
Aginor Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Oh right, what am I saying? Americans don't know how to block. Sorry, I just came from Japan. I'm not used to your American ways.
pochp Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Jumping out is also legit, but you have to know when to do it, why you're doing it, and where you're going once you're in the air. Holding up-back = set sail for fail. For example, when you're cornered by rachel, and can't find a spot to DP because she's using a good mix of lobelias, pumpkin and george with her normals to keep you pressured "safely", jumping out between two lobelias can be a safe way out. And when you'd like to DP but your opponent is out of range and you know it, there's always omohikane (also good when cornered by rachel, IMO)
SolarMisae Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Answer to all of those questions is, it depends on the match up. Remember this pretty much. Another reason why it's pretty impossible to sum her up in a few words, too much to cover.
LunarSelenia Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Oh right, what am I saying? Americans don't know how to block. Sorry, I just came from Japan. I'm not used to your American ways. This made my day XDDD
SolarMisae Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 HEY I know how to block...mostly...sometimes...
StarGazer Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 Oh right, what am I saying? Americans don't know how to block. Sorry, I just came from Japan. I'm not used to your American ways. traitor... your gameplay is illegal P: pssst am not Amarican
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