[CS1-CSE] Tsubaki Self-Improvement and Critique Thread

[Airk]

So can you not upload replays to the leaderboard anymore? At least on XBox? I could use some help, but I don't have good means to record my matches. No capture card, and my low-end android phone likely won't hack it for camera recording.

I...never figured out how to do this in the first place. It seems like an extremely poorly documented feature, to the point where it was actually a couple of months after I got the game that I even discovered that SOME people had replays on the leaderboards. x.x

NO IDEA how this works.

[Daedron]

I believe you need to be in the top 5% of your character on the leaderboards or something like that to get the option of uploading replays.

It goes by PSR I believe.

[Airk]

HAH. No wonder I never noticed that feature. :P

I can't say I'm a huge fan of SSF4, but their replay functionality was really good compared to this. =( Of course, apparently even Capcom couldn't be arsed to do it again with MvC3, so maybe it's a lot of work. :P

[pktazn]

Wait really? I thought it was how it was in CT where you could allow to have your match up for display by allowing it before you start the match? I'm so out of the loop.

[Rhiya]

Yeah, you need to be top X on the leaderboards before you can upload replays. = /

However, bodying scrubs with Tsubaki is easier than ever, so...

[TwilightInZero]

I see. Thank you for the info, I never knew this. I only uploaded one replay ever, way back in 1.02, of me landing Requiem on someone, just because I saw the option and was still new to netplay. Not going to be quite so easy to get back to that point, my game could use some improvement. Which is why I want to upload a replay in the first place. x_x

Edited May 25, 2011 by TwilightInZero

[TwilightInZero]

Okay, so my Dad's xoom tablet saved the day. I was able to record some vids and get them up on YouTube.

vs Jin

vs Ragna

vs Noel

vs Hazama

Any and all tips, pointers, and criticisms are greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[diospyros]

Ok, I've seen the vs jin video so I'll comment on that one. Mash 5d for quick charging, but if not (and if the jin player is not doing anything to stop it from a long range), use 2d instead. The charge speed of 2d increases overtime. Also, I noticed that some of your combos blue-beated. This means that the opponent can recover from that combo at anytime and punish you for it. If you're attempting a corner air combo with 6c, try this: 5bb>5cc>22d>6cc>jc>jcc>j236a>j214c. Watch your 236x too, especially when the guy has 50 heat to get you at a distance.

edit:

Use 5b as a distance and pressure tool. Moves like 5a or 2a are used when you're really in the opponent's face, but, at arm's length, it's just 5b.

edit 2:

So, I watched everything. Overall, practice and test out some combos. Combos that incorporated a 236a weren't always a guaranteed hit. Omit 236a for a 22x move instead. I think you've seen this video before, but, if not, go study it. You know have to do the flashy dp and iad combos, but focus on combos that link 2dd>236d for now.

Here is an classic example of 5a pressure mixed in with short dashes.

Edited May 26, 2011 by diospyros

[Airk]

I noticed that some of your combos blue-beated. This means that the opponent can recover from that combo at anytime and punish you for it.

Actually, that's not true. I don't want to nitpick, but there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding what blue-beats mean.

It does NOT mean they can magically break out of your combo at any time. It DOES mean that they had a CHANCE to break out of your combo, and missed it. If you look closely at the blue-beat counter, there will be a smaller number (actually, up to three smaller numbers) under the big one. Those were the hits when your opponent COULD have teched out of your combo.

So what a blue-beat really means is that your execution wasn't tight (Or you're not using a 'valid' combo.). It's not a problem in and of itself, because your opponent DIDN'T tech out - you should finish your combo, don't drop it early to avoid a punish or anything - but you should go to training mode and practice to make sure you don't give people that opening, because good players will escape and punish you... and you won't see a blue number at all, because the combo will be ended.

[diospyros]

I was wondering when someone was going to correct me. I felt like I missed I few points when I was seeing the videos.

Edited May 26, 2011 by diospyros

[Airk]

Some actual advice:

Choose your times to charge a little more judiciously. You charged right up in Ragna's face at one point, and during the Hazama video, there were a couple of times where you got a knockdown and then waited almost until he stood up before you started charging.

Don't try to jump in on a Hazama in stance, or rather, if you do, jump in and barrier. His little "flash kick" thing that he uses out of stance as an anti-air will beat your jump in attacks, but is heftily negative on block, so you get a punish if you block it (Suggested: j.214D)

Don't do 236C/D at -really- full screen range (like after a green burst), because it results in you skidding to a stop right in front of your opponent, which is bad.

Be more careful with your spacing of your normals - during the Ragna match, you whiffed a bunch of jabs, which isn't entirely safe.

More AAing with 2C - didn't see any, and Ragna was jumping at you a bunch.

You held onto your burst too long in the Ragna match - bursting when you only have 1 hit of health left isn't a good idea, because, well, your opponent only needs to get one random hit in. Try to burst BEFORE you get to death's door.

Use your charges in your combos, not just for your approaches/setups - in the third round of the Ragna match, you had two charges when you blocked his Hell's Fang followup in the corner, but all you did was the super basic 0 charge BnB - BattousaiJ's 5BB>5CC>22B>236D>Dash 5B>2CC>236B>214B>22B 1-charge would've been excellent there.

[Amadeus46Art]

Finally got my capture card working, but all I have are old replays:

5/31/11:

v. Noel (1)

v. Noel (2)

6/1/11:

v. Tsubaki (1)

v. Tsubaki (2)

[diospyros]

I noticed that you kept using 5bb in the first noel vid; the recovery is 19 and frame adv. is -5. This means that you can be set up for pretty nasty situations like being punished with a distortion finish. Try 5B>2B and use 5B as poke.

Second Video:

I would save the 1 charge instead of using it in an air throw unless you're putting him in the corner like at 0:56. At 2:54,corner> delay charge>6cc whiffs unless it's 5DD unblockable>charge>6cc. Though, during online play, it can easily miss. At 3:06, when you did the 22x move, I would've used the 1 meter to go to 236D instead and then go to 22x to keep him in the corner.

Third Video:

Watch out for 236D when Tsubaki has 1 meter and/or charging to 1 from full screen. On jD, 2C works when timed right to capture people doing air dives like j214D or repeated 623C>j214x whiffs. Also, practice your combos. Study this.

Fourth Video:

Mix-up your blockstrings, like for example, 5B>2B>6A. Though charge cancelling isn't effective in CS2 than in CS1, I would practice it as a stratagem during a blockstring. You can probably go into a throw from it. At 3:15, when you went into throw>623D, try 5B>2CC>236B>214B>22B. It brings him into the corner and at close range. You want the opponent to be within your control at all times.

Edited June 6, 2011 by diospyros

[Airk]

Finally got my capture card working, but all I have are old replays:

5/31/11:

v. Noel (1)

The forward dash at the start is dubious opener against Noel.

Learn a better no-charge corner combo. 5BB>5CC>22C>6C>236C>214C>22B is so stupid easy even I can do it, and the 5BB>5CC>22B>dash 2B> 2CC > 22C > 5C > 2C > 236B > 214B > 22B is less hard than it sounds.

The random 5CC was probably a input error?

Honestly, I think that round 1 burst was unnecessary. You had tons of health left.

That random 623C in round 1 was just a bad idea - she wasn't nearby, and you don't really want to do 623C outside a combo anyway. At the very least, D-cancelling to j.214D would've salvaged it, most likely, but be careful with that move in general. Same with the random 623D and 623C in round 2 - if you're not comfortable doing these moves at point blank range, it's probably safest not to use them at all.

Try to remember that there's startup on 236X, so if your opponent is already in melee range, it's probably bad to try to go for one. (I have this same issue where I just don't process fast enough, and someone running towards me is close enough to hit me by the time the move starts to come out.)

You probably want to avoid using the 22D reset (or 22D in general) midscreen unless you have a 2nd charge. Otherwise, it's basically a waste of a charge that you could've used for more corner carry with 5BB > 5CC > 22B > 236D > 5B > 2CC > 236B >214B>22B or for more damage and a position switch with 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 236D > 5BB > 2BB > 5CC > 22C or thereabouts. I know this is a CS1 habit, and we ALL miss it, but...well... get a knockdown and get another charge.

v. Noel (2)

Oh, well, there're some good 623As! Next step is to learn to follow them up with a j.214C for more damage and much better spacing.

You seem a little timid about mashing the heck out of D on a knockdown. If your opponent is going to give you space by neutral teching your 22C, you should be able to get more than a charge. Just watch for forward rolls.

A lot of CS1 nostalgia sadness with midscreen 22D in this match too. =(

v. Tsubaki (1)

Like me, you really need to mix up your blockstrings. 5BB>2BB>5CC>22C is solid and fairly safe, but it's not going to break through anyone's defenses anytime soon. 5BB>6A>5CC>6B will at least make them work for it. And eventually we'll both need to learn proper jab pressure. =/

You missed a 22X counterhit pickup in round 3. Normally I don't point out when people have trouble with hitconfirms, because I suck at them, but this one is really pretty easy and merits some time in training mode.

This is also the first time I've seen you use heat for ANYTHING. Honestly, probably the BEST thing you can do with heat as Tsubaki is to spend it on counter assaults. I know I ALWAYS forget about these, but I've been working them into my game lately, and holy cow, they make a huge difference. It's almost as nice as a burst, and costs you no primers.

v. Tsubaki (2)

Not much to add, except that I noticed that since I don't think I ever saw you do a two-charge combo, it's probably better for you to spend your one charge when you have it, and get some more off that knockdown rather than doing another 0-charge and charging some more.

[Daedron]

2 matches against a Tao player:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0ZpIQ6zocE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTaye3of67s

Whenever I play Tao I feel like I really can't do much against her pressure, I can 5A her 6B I guess and 2C her sometimes (but really, a good Tao will mix up her dashes so that you guess wrong most of the time) but except that I really dunno what to do.

Am I supposed to be sitting there until I can punish her doing some risky stuff with a 5A? I am not good at doing DP's while blocking, 2A or 6A tends to come out instead of 623A which is obviously VERY bad (especially the 6A) so I tend to not do it.

And I guess trying to go air to air with her is pretty bad as well, and I wonder if I should really use 236C this much (I love that move to dead now though).

Also, does anyone know what happened to the combo at 1:18 in the 2nd video, the 5C is supposed to whiff yet it hit her and completely confused me, it seems to be random too since I use this combo all the time on a lot of different characters. Last time this happened was against a Lambda player which also confused me greatly ;/

It seems like I needed to delay the 5CC but you don't NEED to do that at all, in fact I hammer on the 5C all the time after I hit with j.214D because I know it will connect exactly like I want it to except this time ;_;

[diospyros]

Also, does anyone know what happened to the combo at 1:18 in the 2nd video, the 5C is supposed to whiff yet it hit her and completely confused me, it seems to be random too since I use this combo all the time on a lot of different characters. Last time this happened was against a Lambda player which also confused me greatly ;/

You were either too close to the tao player and her hit box may have had some key in 5C connecting (or both). It's most likely the hitbox from tao faceplanting the ground. You were pretty far to prep for the 5C whiff.

[Airk]

Just a few random vs. Tao tidbits:

#1: If goes for a "naked" Cat Spirit 3 (The grounded slashes that hit down as an overhead, then up as a mid) you can hit her out of the startup - it has 30 frames of startup. You did this once in the second match

#2: If you can anticipate a 6B, throw out a 2C. It will beat it clean.

#3: After blocking her 6A (the two upwards paw-bats) on the ground, 2C isn't a bad option - all of her gatling options from there come out really slow (6B, 6C), so she's probably going to jump or drive cancel, and 2C might hit her.

#4: Treat her kinda like a zoning character - you won't be getting much charge here, because she can close and hit you so fast, but her defensive options are limited and she has Carl-level health, so if you get a chance to apply pressure, stay on her and don't let up.

#5: At long range, 236C beats most of her options

#6: Against random drive junk, 214X might be valuable, because it covers a lot of space and can't be hit by any of her airborne nonsense during the invulnerability frames. If you get a grounded non-counter-hit, you can D-cancel into 22D for hurtings.

#7: In moderation, random j.214Xs can hit her out of a bunch of stuff and cover a different angle than your usual ground-based attacks. You're right that trying to chase her into the air is probably bad though.

#8: Counter-assault more. (This is my new advice for everything. Problems with your toaster? Counter assault more.)

#9: Don't be quite so afraid to stick an attack out there every once in a while. While Tao has good pressure, there are holes, and if you don't poke her occasionally, she's free to do whatever. (You actually did a bit of this, but in the first round of the 2nd match you seemed kinda paralyzed).

Actually though, I thought you did really well. You had several excellent hitconfirms and generally blocked and teched very well. Probably wouldn't hurt to spent a while in training mode getting comfy with the DP-under-pressure though. (Working on that myself.)

[LunarSelenia]

Mu vs. Tsubaki 1 (3 matches)

Mu vs. Tsubaki 2 (3 matches)

There. Some matches between me and my roommate, SolarMisae. Rip it apart, seriously, I want to get better >.<;;;

Just a few notes: I can't do any 623C > j.214A whiff combos yet, I just got IAD combos down and I'm starting to use them in matches >>;;;, and I am aware that at 6:04 of the second link, I messed up and did a 2D instead of a 22D unblockable ._.;;; Fail.

Other than that, I appreciate any input. And sorry for the crappy quality, we JUST got my Dazzle to work again ._.;;

[BatousaiJ]

Hum.

Lets see...great use of Counter Assaults. Nice DP baiting and punish. Something you grasped from playing your friend a bunch of times, I'd imagine

When you confirm 22C knockaway with 236D, do 5B > 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B for corner knockdown and untechable charge time. Last thing you want to do is let Mu have free time to setup steins and get ready for a counter attack. Corner pressure in CS 2 is very important and you don't want to sacrifice that for just a little extra damage.

Also, I'd like to see some better combo options, not just talking about DP whiffs or 2 charge combos but hit confirming on crouching hit into 5BB > 2BB >5CC > 6BB > 236C > 214C > 22C for corner push and more damage without the use of meter.

Make your opponent be wary of your 623A/D DP option and hit them off guard so they start trying to bait it allowing you to get out of pressure for free. More use of 6A overhead and trickier block strings including charge canceling, tick throws and frame trap setups.

Lastly, don't forget to play the ground footsies game with 5B poke instead of always dashing in for a quick 2/5A.

Keep at it though and continue to add more of Tsubaki's tools to your active arsenal and you should improve in no time.

[LunarSelenia]

Thanks Batousai, will try to add these things in. *makes a note of*

EDIT: Opened up Training Mode since I have nothing planned for tonight. As for the 22C > 236D corner carry stuff, I don't know why I didn't think about using that. @__@;; really useful.

Tick Throws and Charge Cancelling I have to actively remind myself and work that in....I'm sure practice and lots of matches will remedy that over time. Thanks for the input, lots of things I didn't see that I can now work on.

I feel still "awkward" (for a lack of a better term) about applying Tsubaki pressure effectively and what tools she has for it.

That being said, is there a way to slip in 6A effectively in a blockstring? I feel that if I try to slip 6A in on Solar/Mu I will get thrown/DP out of it on reaction. But then again I don't use any charge cancelling/tick throws/any tools to apply Tsubaki pressure right. I just know that Solar has not unsuccessfully thrown me out of 6A yet.

Edited July 20, 2011 by LunarSelenia

[SolarMisae]

I've been able to successfully throw-counter her out of 6A on reaction every time, which is reason she doesn't use it against me. Is there a way for Tsubaki to make that safe for uses in blockstrings? I figured she could possibly somehow bait the throw/dp or something.

Edited July 20, 2011 by SolarMisae

[LunarSelenia]

I have a feeling that the answer to that (against you at least) is...to use something else for pressure. Tsubaki has charge cancelling, tick throws, unblockable 22D mindgames, etc = other means of pressure than just the 6A overhead...I just actually have to use it.

[Kiba]

I figured Lunar didn't use 6A because Solar knows how to react it. Then said, find other ways to mix it in. For example 5C - RC - 6A/6B - 6A. Since it's easy to react to though I wouldn't advise using 6a alot unless your opponent can't block her overhead which isn't the case here.

Batousai covered everything but I'll add my 2 cents.

The 1st set of matches:

Solar has a habit of using 6C - 5D on block. If you know the player well and your reactions are good you can 236C/D. Again it comes down to knowing the player well, because there were times Solar would use 6C - SoD. Midscreen the worst is that if you guess wrong you'll be fataled and sent back to square one where Mu would try to hunt you down with lasers flying. If you guess correctly however, you nearly always almost got her into the corner.

Solar was also using 6B - SoD on block, in which case you could DP it if you're feeling brave. Alternatively she can be thrown out of the overhead but that requires reaction.

The 2nd set of matches:

When you got Mu with the air throw you could've done 6C - 236D - 5B - 2CC - 236B - 214B - 22B to leave yourself in a better position to apply necessary pressure. Each time you use the J.214C combo enders, depending on where Mu is on the screen you give her more time to be able to set up steins and make your life more miserable.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Kiba

[Errol]

re: 6a

I don't think solar can throw 6a on reaction. I think when you tried using it you were probably just too predictable with it. I say this because from what I saw, you don't have any blockstring gameplay. You always end with 22c, which puts you in neutral. You can restart your pressure after 2b, 6b, and charge cancels. You can gatling your normals late so that it is harder to tell if a 6a is coming or if the normal is coming a bit slower. And you can throw out 6a in numerous places.

[Airk]

The "trick" to using 6A is that it's much harder to react to it when someone ALSO has to react to tick throws, charge cancels, and random D-moves. If 6A is the ONLY thing they need to watch for, it's not too hard to spot, but when someone is sitting there thinking "Crap. If he tick throws me into 3k again, I'm done." suddenly 6A is much more surprising. :P

There was definitely some bad combo choices/positioning action going on there too. There's really no reason to EVER do 5BB>5CC>22C by itself in this matchup (It could probably be argued it's not a good idea in almost any matchup, but there are probably situations in matches with no zoners where it's desirable to use this to create space to charge). If you have no charge midscreen, you should at least do 5BB>2BB>5CC>236A>214A>22A for something resembling corner carry and also more damage. If you've got them in the corner, then 5BB>5CC>22B>6C>236C>214C>22C is acceptable for no-charge damage with a little charge time at the end. (It's also so crazy easy than even I can do it.)

Also, don't jump in with j.BB. j.B is okay to jump in with, but mashing B for j.BB is just going to mess you up because the 2nd attack will whiff on a crouching target AND it gives you 3 frames of landing recovery, which will make it harder to follow up. I saw you get punished for this several times when a j.C would've hit just fine.

More liberal use of run in>214X would put paid to his habit of trying to keep you out with explosions or the Glowy Ball of Doom.

Also... SoD is NOT SAFE on block unless it's been charged for a significant amount of time. At the very least, dash 5B after that gives you pressure, at best, a combo. Do not respect "blockstrings" that end in SoD. And for heaven's sake, if he whiffs it, punish with something. I'm pretty sure you can backdash out of 6C>SoD as well, particularly if they try to hold it for some reason.. and if you do, they're screwed because you're now out of range of SoD and can punish when it releases.

Other things not to respect: Setting steins at fullscreen from neutral. Unless he's already got a wall of steins out to protect him, you can pretty much 236C in on him for free - at least until he starts trying to special cancel to protect himself, in which case you can play mindgames with 236B or 236C > 214D since 214D beats every special option he has as long as you time it right.

I'm not sure how good an idea it is to start this match with a backwards airdash either - you don't really want to be relinquishing position on Mu. If you're nervous about starting with 22A or 214B, you can start with 5B or just a crouch block.

And uh... I'm sure someone said this already, but less jumping. Never deliberately try to meet Mu air-to-air, because her air-to-air options are very good and yours are poor. The only time you really want to "air-to-air" her is if you anticipate her trying to jump out of the corner, jump and air throw.