Airk Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Is it 5B gatling to 6C then kara cancel 6C into throw, or is it just 5B > recover > 6C Kara Cancel throw? And yeah. I start a lot of matches with 22A, but that Tao was always jumping back or backdashing, so it was whiff city with that.
OrionXElite Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZwCgeYYjK8&feature=feedu Ok so thanks for all the help first time guys(Especially Kiba, my Valkenbro :3 ) But I've got another one where I kinda scrubbed out against Jin:v: I won the first game, but then I lose the next 2. I switch to Tager the last game so you don't need to watch that but I'm wondering if theres any other advice I could get from anyone? ANYONE is free to help(Hajin, you've very much competent enough to lend out advice so feel free to try, I won't get mad if its confusing :3 ) I hit more combos this time and I felt I doing a few more shenanigans but overall I just had no idea what to do against Jin in some cases. Also I had one question in particular, In this match and bunch of casuals after, I would hit a combo into 22C in the corner but have no Charge, what should I do combowise after? Should I just do 6C>236B>214B>22C?? Edited October 6, 2011 by OrionXElite
pktazn Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 (edited) From a combo into 22C I'm starting to do 22C > dash 2B > 2CC > 236C > 214C > 22B if it's in the corner and no charges. Think it does around 2.5k from 5B though I think it's the same damage as just using 6C > 236B > 214B > 22C but it looks stylish. Someone else probably has a better combo out there though. I thought you could go into an IAD from the 2CC but you can't when I was messing around in training mode. They always tech out before the j.C hits. EDIT: You can also go to an air combo from the 2CC which only does a little bit more damage. Edited October 6, 2011 by pktazn
HajinShinobi Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Before I go any deeper about anything, I want to answer your question about combo'ing after a 22C corner knockdown. Yes, with no Install Charge at your disposal, do 6C - 236B - 214B - 22B OR 6C - 236C - 214C - 22C after a 22C knockdown in the corner. Or even if you do have Install Charge for that matter. It's good to decent damage (about 2k+), good corner positioning, and you can always squeeze abit of extra charge after the knockdown. Now onto the matches. First thing I want to tap on is, when charging for install at neutral, stick to 5D/5D taps and 2D charging. Dont use J.D charge at neutral because 1) The recovery is pretty slow and 2)It just gives your opponent the opportunity to rush in on you. Around 4:16 - 4:19, I noticed you did 6A - 5C - 22D. I want to recommend you use 22C instead of 22D (unless you charge 22D for an unblockable). 22C takes 1 guard primer and is distance safe. Also you can do something like 5B - 22C - 22A (or any string you like and end it with 22C). 22A can CH people when they try to push buttons after a blocked 22C. I wont go into combos though, that's something that can always be learned through practice. I would comment about the Tsu vs Jin matchup but it's one I'm still getting used to myself. I'll leave that to someone else.
OrionXElite Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Yeah I'm trying to get out of the habit of doing random air Charging cause it keeps getting me hit:v: I tried using it for shenanigans by baiting someone to try and hit me then do j.214D and headbutt them :3 I'll dick around with random different combo enders since I'll actually have some time tomorrow hopefully to do that. I just need some time in training mode to tune my hands to do shit right instead of derping all over the place:v: Also I am gonna try and do more 22X things. I keep forgetting its safe(especially 22C since its fucking +1, DEFINITELY need more of that) If I could just get used to her damn gatlings and knowing what specials to throw around where, I think I'd be fine but shes confusing:v: OK I know what I can start with at least, thanks peoples :3 Any other advice is still appreciated of course :3
SolarMisae Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Orion you need to use the ":3" face way more. Just sayin. Okay back to your regularly scheduled programming~
Airk Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Yeah I'm trying to get out of the habit of doing random air Charging cause it keeps getting me hit:v: I tried using it for shenanigans by baiting someone to try and hit me then do j.214D and headbutt them :3 This actually works on lot of people, though you might just want to use j.C instead of flying headbutt, because it's a lot safer, and they'll usually be below you anyway. Otherwise, well... In terms of the Jin matchup, a lot of it is playing careful and figuring out what your opponent likes to do. Jin has a lot of stuff that's really dangerous if he catches you offguard with it, but easy to counter for a lot of damage if you're ready. Jin doesn't really have any safe normals, so he has to end his blockstrings with something fancy - the usual tricks I've seen are: Ending with 5C and jump cancelling. This can be an open season invitation to a 2C anti-air from you if they just jump forward to try to continue their pressure (like the Jin in the match did several times early on). Fancier Jins will then either airdash or do some nonsense with air ice swords. Beating this is a question of reacting correctly and not autopiloting a 2C. You can go through any ice sword with a 214x series move, and all air ice swords have landing recovery that you can catch if you can get past them. 6C > Dash Cancel > Optional DP or ice sword. Dash cancel is pretty unsafe, so a lot of Jin's try to punish your punish with a DP. The trick here is that if you punish with 2A, the B DP will go over your head, and the C DP is actually too slow to hit you before you recover. He can use the D-DP to hit you, but unless he has more heat to follow up with a super or a RC, it's not THAT bad. "ending" with 6B - 6B is plus on block, but you can jab him out of the startup very easily if you're expecting it. Be wary of throws afterwards if you block. Ending with Ice Sword - only C ice sword is really very safe on block, and it has enormous startup, so these are generally punishable. Ending with 6D - this is like 6B, in that it's very plus on block if you block it, but it's 35 frames of startup, so can easily be backdashed out of or jabbed if you're close enough. Always block low with Jin, particularly on wakeup (Lots of Jin players will do a meaty 2B on your wakeup), though if he has 50 heat and is very close you'll need to keep an eye open for his overhead, which is quite fast, but has minimal range and leads to nothing except on CH or RC. In the neutral game, Jin doesn't really have pokes to match your 5B - his 5B and 5C are fast, but don't have as much in way of range as 5B does. On the other hand, his air normals are REALLY GOOD, and you should attempt to never meet him in an 'honest' air to air - if he's airborne first, don't chase him, he has entirely too many good options there (If anything, I think this is what cost you the match). Stay grounded when he jumps, and react to his stuff appropriately - 2C will stuff the majority of jump ins, but try to throw it late to avoid him faking you out with an ice sword. Also, a little careful with your 5D charges, because as you found out, he can punish fullscreen with ice car (or ice-wave super). 2D is actually probably the better choice for charging at neutral here, because Ice Car actually goes -over- it, and it recovers fast enough that if you let go of the button during superfreeze for Ice Wave, you'll have time to block. At match start, 22A is an...okay start, but risky because some Jin players are aggressive enough/knowledgeable enough to know that they can beat that with a forward jump into a big combo. 214B beats most of the same stuff that 22A does and is safer against jump ins. Alternatively, since Jin doesn't really have anything meaningful he can poke you with at starting distance (he could theoretically do 6C or 2D, but this is not generally wise) you can just crouchblock and react to jump ins with 2C and backdashes with 236C. (Actually, the patient start isn't a bad one against a lot of characters.) Dunno how much of that is going to be "Duh! Basics!" for you, but you asked for advice on the Jin matchup.
Kiba Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZwCgeYYjK8&feature=feedu Ok so thanks for all the help first time guys(Especially Kiba, my Valkenbro :3 ) But I've got another one where I kinda scrubbed out against Jin:v: I won the first game, but then I lose the next 2. I switch to Tager the last game so you don't need to watch that but I'm wondering if theres any other advice I could get from anyone? ANYONE is free to help(Hajin, you've very much competent enough to lend out advice so feel free to try, I won't get mad if its confusing :3 ) I hit more combos this time and I felt I doing a few more shenanigans but overall I just had no idea what to do against Jin in some cases. Also I had one question in particular, In this match and bunch of casuals after, I would hit a combo into 22C in the corner but have no Charge, what should I do combowise after? Should I just do 6C>236B>214B>22C?? Having fun with Tsubaki's DP? If you hit with 22C as a starter in the corner, you can do 2B - 2CC - IAD combo. In the first match when you managed to hit with a 214D when you had Jin in the corner, you could run under them and then use the 5B - 2CC - IAD combo to keep them in the corner. You dont need to do it, but the corner oki is stronger there since you were closer to the right hand side. At 5:17 you managed to land a CH J.C. It has so much untechable time on CH that you you can do 2CC - IAD combo which would've been stronger than the initial combo you used. In terms of the matchup, at neutral your 5B/22X beats all of (or should beat) Jin's options. Unfortunately Jin isn't going to stay grounded all the time and this is where is becomes a lil more difficult. When Jin charges at you while you're charging for stock a usually common option for him to use would be to use 2D. If you stop charging and then backdash which is usually the case the 2D will catch your backdash. You can keep him at bay with 22X or 5B. If he's very far from you, you can't afford to get greedy with charging (which you personally are not) because his 214X can quickly catch you. If Jin is attempting to approach you with air options you usually have to AA or just accept it. Don't go air to air with Jin because in most cases (or all the time) you will lose. Remember sometimes other than running you can use 236C to get because from far it's +5 on block. This will be especially useful where Jin is in the air throwing swords and you want a quick way to approach and punish. If it's not enough you can use 236C - 214D to catch him in the air. You need to be aware of Jin's gimmicks too because he will always keep you guessing. I won't list all of them but some are: Combo midscreen - 2D - 6B - 5B - 2B - Then he will throw you and it will not be a purple throw Combo midscreen into J.D - then he will air dash and he can cross you up and use J.D again which will cause a reset. Tbh I don't actually know the times where he'll cross you up but he definately needs to be quite close to you in the air before the air dash. Alternatively he can air dash into J.2C - JC - The J.C here will whiff and then he can throw you where it will not be purple. He can also end with J.D in the corner and then throw you, use 2B or use 6A. Thie mixup is usually dependant on the player though. Apart from that, you're definately good. Well done dude, good shit. And btw:
tsubaki1 Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 does anybody have any tips against hazama? he gives me the most trouble out of all characters i play against. oh and hello im new to this site. nice to meet everyone! :]
HajinShinobi Posted October 25, 2011 Posted October 25, 2011 (edited) does anybody have any tips against hazama? he gives me the most trouble out of all characters i play against. oh and hello im new to this site. nice to meet everyone! :] Welcome~ I think your question would be better suited for the Tsubaki vs Hazama matchup thread, but I'm sure someone will definitely answer your question regardless. I dont have enough experience with that matchup to give any input on it though, unfortunately. :/ But maybe this can help you out. Here's a link to that particular matchup thread. You can review what was discussed there for reference if you like. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11558-CS2-Tsubaki-vs-Hazama Edited October 25, 2011 by HajinShinobi
Iza Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 So after using Tsubaki for a good while now I was thinking maybe i can get some help from you people Match1 (crappy end i felt embarrassed about) Match2 Note: I can't use DP whiff combo's in a match (yet) after 6BB I use the B version of the follow up instead of C cos they seem to block if i use C version (prob something to do with lag) And I use a 360 pad which sucks Also how should i follow up 5B air hits? i asked Kiba personally about it but it be grateful for other people inputs
Errol Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 mashing doens't get you out of ice. block/barrier.
Kiba Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) So after using Tsubaki for a good while now I was thinking maybe i can get some help from you people Match1 (crappy end i felt embarrassed about) Match2 Note: I can't use DP whiff combo's in a match (yet) after 6BB I use the B version of the follow up instead of C cos they seem to block if i use C version (prob something to do with lag) And I use a 360 pad which sucks Also how should i follow up 5B air hits? i asked Kiba personally about it but it be grateful for other people inputs The DD won't work on Jin after a 22C knockdown because of his hitbox unfortunately. You have to use 6C - DD if possible. 2:52 - Lmfao. I swear you only need to hold block to get out of the ice faster. There is no need to press buttons to get out. There were also quite a few attempts where you could've easily AA'd the player with 2C and scored nice corner carry/damage. 5B as an AA is unreliable at that range. You're letting him get in too easily. At 1:36 I'm just curious, you opted for the air combo instead of the generic corner carry combo (236B - 214B - 22B) How comes? I think you could work on pressure too. You were doing things which could easily get you punished such as 5CC. You should mix in charge cancels and jump cancels to vary your pressure options. Edited November 1, 2011 by Kiba
Iza Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 Thanks man, I be sure remember that the next time I go against a Jin about DD and ice breaking, I haven't really looked into match ups so i wouldn't know 1:36 you mean after the gold IAD? I guess i was thinking if i could follow it up with corner carry but i wasen't to sure so i stuck with an air combo as expected i really should have worked on my AA tho i wouldn't know when to time 2C them blocked 5CC are bad habbit of me mashing a bit, I will work on pressure strings like you said
Kiba Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 1:36 you mean after the gold IAD? I guess i was thinking if i could follow it up with corner carry but i wasen't to sure so i stuck with an air combo Yup, but no prob. There were also times where against the Bang you'd charge for a while and then allow the Bang to get a CH with something. Also after that he didn't followup but then get a CH with other things. You should try to block in most cases after as you're getting hit with alot of random things. When Bang (not that Bang in particular) is pressuring you, you may want to opt for using the barrier to push him out because he can do a variety of things which can keep you guessing and frustrated.
Iza Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Ah yer knowing when to charge is another thing I should be looking out for, your right it did make me frustrated a little from those random hits (my fault i guess) I was pretty lucky to win tbh I think that guy mains a Ragna with a Jin sub... EDIT: hopefully I can get DP whiff stuff out soon in matches but the 360 pad really does suck for it Edited November 2, 2011 by Iza
Shruikon Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I think both players needed to block a bit more, tbh. In anycase, Kiba pretty much covered everything. I did notice in one game though that you practically had no life left and went for a lone 6A twice in a row - You were really lucky he didn't interrupt those! But yeah, if you wanna go for the overhead, it's usually best to gatling or RC into it. I usually do it after a 5/2A string or after a 2B.
Airk Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Kiba mostly covered this stuff already (The big thing I noticed was the lack of 2C anti-air....and yeah, the mashing out of ice.) but a couple of things that haven't been brought up: Even with no DP-whiff stuff, your combo selection has some room for improvement. At 2:37 or so in the Jin video, you punished Ice Car with a combo that would be great midscreen, but with your back to the corner, I'd have suggested 5BB>5CC>236D>5BB>5CC>22C for the position reverse to put HIM in the corner easily. (not sure, but you might even be able to do some 6C > 236C stuff after that if you corner him.). Also, when you do the 5CC>6BB>stuff thing, you can generally use 236C>214C>22C for slightly more damage. But mostly, yeah, really, 2C anti air would make a huge difference in your game.
Iza Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 I did say after 6BB that i use B version cos online sometimes it lag the input of C and they can block it so im using it to be safe, Id use C offline ofcourse now that you mention it that was prob been a good idea, forgot about fundemental stuff there :/ also what would be a optimal follow up when i do get 2C AA hits?
Errol Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 note, if you have trouble confirming the range on the 236x series after 5bb5cc, then just do 22c. Dropping that there is bad if your opponent realizes they just got pressure for free. replace your corner combo 6cc j 214d with 6cc 623c j236a whiff j214d.
Shruikon Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 also what would be a optimal follow up when i do get 2C AA hits? If it's the right height, go for an IAD combo. Otherwise just a 236x series? I'm not entirely sure on the exact most optimal combo here myself.
Errol Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 2cc-> IAD 2cc -> 236D ->..... 2cc-> 623c whiff combo
HajinShinobi Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) If it's the right height, go for an IAD combo. Otherwise just a 236x series? I'm not entirely sure on the exact most optimal combo here myself. You have options from a 2C Anti-air. Assuming 2C is confirmed as a counter-hit, you can do the following (simple stuff): CH 2C > Dash (if necessary) 5B 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B CH 2C > Dash (if necessary) 5B 2CC > IAD > j.CC(delay) > 5B 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B CH 2CC > IAD > j.CC(delay) > 5B 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B CH 2CC > 236D > Dash 5C 2CC or Dash 2CC > IAD > j.CC(delay) > 5B 2CC > 236B > 214B > 22B Notice I only labeled those that end with the 236B > 214B > 22B, because you want that corner carry and it'll always put Tsubaki in a very good position. Plus you're free to get a guaranteed 1 charge of stock after the knockdown if you choose to do so (depending on the distance you can get up to 2 stocks of charge or more as well). Also, RedNova, dont worry so much about the DP Whiff combos. True, you should work on them more for higher damage, but you can still get decent damage AND knockbacks without them. I'm more interested in seeing you get more solid with Tsubaki. Work on your pressure and mixups more. And break the habit of opting for 5BB 5CC as your blockstring, it's not a good blockstring. Edited November 2, 2011 by HajinShinobi
Iza Posted November 2, 2011 Posted November 2, 2011 Thanks for all your your help, I am so proud to be a Tsubaki main
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