Errol Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Well, there's more than one place you can use it. also, 22d outranges mu's dp I believe.
SolarMisae Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Doesn't matter much as she has full invul from frame 1 - 18 on her DP. It starts up faster and is active longer than Tsu's 22D and when well timed will always beat it. From what we've found at least.
Airk Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 (edited) Doesn't matter much as she has full invul from frame 1 - 18 on her DP. It starts up faster and is active longer than Tsu's 22D and when well timed will always beat it. From what we've found at least. She doesn't have full invulnerability actually, she only has a guard point (at least, according to the frame data). The problem is that during her DP's active period, it hits 22Ds hurtbox before the attack connects. There's a simple solution though - deliberately DELAY the 22D slightly while out of range of the DP and the DP will whiff (assuming the opponent mashes it out trying to stop the unblockable) and get clobbered in recovery. Works like a charm if the spacing is right. It might also work if the unblockable was started EARLY enough that it hits before the active frames of the DP, because unless the frame data is wrong it WILL beat the DP if it doesn't get counterhit. Edited August 20, 2011 by Airk
Kiba Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 @Kiba: I hardly use Rapids unless I did something stupid, I'll take it into consideration. The 236C option is going to help me a lot. Did not know about that. I still suck at it, I can't get it consistently, I'm inputting things waaaaay too fast and get just 623C. Or I get the 623C > j.214A and get the dash wrong >.<;; I'm still working on it. I just don't get too much training time atm, got a lot of things in life eating up my time. I'm determined to get it though >.<;; Glad I helped. Not saying it's a necessity but it'll greatly help if you learn the combos against Mu because you want to make it harder for her to cause havoc on the screen. Oh, just note she doesn't use the unblockable setup on me cause I've gotten pretty decent at DPing my way out of it. Doesn't matter much as she has full invul from frame 1 - 18 on her DP. It starts up faster and is active longer than Tsu's 22D and when well timed will always beat it. From what we've found at least. Are you talking about DP'ing the unblockable right before it's initiated or whilst she's still in the animation? If it's the latter, all she needs to do is to hit you with 5B at near max range and you will get caught if you try to DP her. This is where measuring distance comes in and also making it unpredictable to the specified player. If it's the first option however, simply ignore my post.
Errol Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Testing on this might be interesting. Still, 22d isn't useless on characters with DPs. If you don't know it is coming you might not get that DP out.
SolarMisae Posted August 20, 2011 Posted August 20, 2011 Yeah before it's initiated. In order to get out I tech and DP the second I can to catch it before she starts charging it, so when it touches her the guardpoint absorbs the hit and the DP touches Tsu's hurtbox and sends her flying. I've done it successfully many times so she stopped using that setup on me. In any case, if it matters, I'm talking about the 6A > corner unblockable setup. Cause of that this doesn't necessarily apply to other set ups Tsu may have that I am unaware of.
Kiba Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Thanks for that Solar. Well in that case, it tells me that Lunar isn't using it in other situations, for example, something simple such as 5B - 22D can be used. The 6A - 22D is better used on players who don't know about the setup or those with a lack of reversal.
LunarSelenia Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 Thanks for that Solar. Well in that case, it tells me that Lunar isn't using it in other situations, for example, something simple such as 5B - 22D can be used. The 6A - 22D is better used on players who don't know about the setup or those with a lack of reversal. Thank you Kiba. 6A > 22D is when I was first learning/applying 22D Unblockables in general. I've been throwing them in randomly to try and catch people off guard. I'll get it eventually XP
Airk Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 6A>22D is nice, but as Kiba says, mostly against people who are going to go WTF just happened? My usual method (Note: I am not very good, so take with a grain of salt), is to intentionally drop a combo and go for a 22D instead; Examples: 5BB>2BB>5CC>22D [hold] 5BB>2BB>5CC>236A>22D [hold] 5BB>2BB>5CC>>236A>214A>22D [hold] There are probably other, better places for this (I should try Throw>6C>22D [hold] >.> ) but that's the gist - I'm sure you can think of clever locations to do it. Also, for whatever it's worth, guardpoint should not/will not absorb fully charged 22D - at least, Cat Chair and Bang's drive don't (Bang's drive is the easiest to verify this one, since the guardpoint happens at a different time than the hitting frames.). You need, as best as I can tell, to be out and out invulnerable to not get hit by 22D. Dunno what's up with Mu.
LunarSelenia Posted August 21, 2011 Posted August 21, 2011 6A>22D is nice, but as Kiba says, mostly against people who are going to go WTF just happened? My usual method (Note: I am not very good, so take with a grain of salt), is to intentionally drop a combo and go for a 22D instead; Examples: 5BB>2BB>5CC>22D [hold] 5BB>2BB>5CC>236A>22D [hold] 5BB>2BB>5CC>>236A>214A>22D [hold] There are probably other, better places for this (I should try Throw>6C>22D [hold] >.> ) but that's the gist - I'm sure you can think of clever locations to do it. Also, for whatever it's worth, guardpoint should not/will not absorb fully charged 22D - at least, Cat Chair and Bang's drive don't (Bang's drive is the easiest to verify this one, since the guardpoint happens at a different time than the hitting frames.). You need, as best as I can tell, to be out and out invulnerable to not get hit by 22D. Dunno what's up with Mu. Any advice would help really, like I said, I started off learning Unblockables with the 6A > 22D then started slowly putting them in blockstrings just to mess people up. I saw the dropping combos thing and using the 22[D] during Kiba's matches that were posted recently. It was something I noted then that I told myself to apply later XDDDD But thanks for giving me some examples, I'm just making a giant list of everything people said and going to tackle it as soon as work stops asking for my body and soul -___-;;;
Airk Posted August 22, 2011 Posted August 22, 2011 I saw a saucy reset with this yesterday in this video (Sadly not a particularly good performance overall.) - Tsubaki went for a 22D after a 2CC. I expect this would be particularly effective in combos that already feature a 22C [hold] in the corner.
LunarSelenia Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 From the Ranbat, against Mystic d's Taokaka X___X;;;;;;; Trust me, there is a lot of improvement alone from fighting against him a couple months ago... [link] I watched this a couple of times (this was the highlight of the night for me XDD intense matches) and I know I fail, my muscle memory is still at 5BB > 5CC > 236x, I'm still trying to change it to 5BB > 2BB > 5CC but in the spur of the moment I forget and I default straight to 5CC after 5BB
Airk Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Not much advice on that, honestly. Most of the stuff you were doing was fine, it's just going to come down to improving your defense (I don't know if you blocked a single overhead), and your combos/hitconfirms. (We both need to sit down and learn to hitconfirm anti-air 5B into SOMETHING.) I presume at least most of those 3Cs were misinputs? (I get 3C a lot when I'm crouchblocking and someone jumps over me and I try to 2C them. Irony? It hits a lot when that happens.)
pktazn Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 AA 5B combo timing from the 5B is really tight. You have to be on the ball with it. I see it happen, even on CH and then try to jc j.B but they're still able to tech out easily.
LunarSelenia Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Not much advice on that, honestly. Most of the stuff you were doing was fine, it's just going to come down to improving your defense (I don't know if you blocked a single overhead), and your combos/hitconfirms. (We both need to sit down and learn to hitconfirm anti-air 5B into SOMETHING.) I presume at least most of those 3Cs were misinputs? (I get 3C a lot when I'm crouchblocking and someone jumps over me and I try to 2C them. Irony? It hits a lot when that happens.) Yeah, there's a bit of lag on the monitors there, I try to not let it bother me but shit like that happens. Some of us drop our combos, I still carry on like usual, I didn't think it was something to note, but yeah, in one of the matches my 236D didn't come out XDDDD I'm not used to blocking Tao overheads except for her 6C? My reaction time is shit on that, I'll learn eventually but It's just like 5B, I SEE and KNOW what to do when it happens it but it's always after the fact. @Pk: I KEEP on telling myself to confirm that into j.B but I fail. Every time and I realize after the fact...I probably will try one of these days.
Airk Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 I'm not used to blocking Tao overheads except for her 6C? My reaction time is shit on that, I'll learn eventually but It's just like 5B, I SEE and KNOW what to do when it happens it but it's always after the fact. If you're talking about the big overhead paw-swipe, that's actually Cat Spirit 3, not a normal. It's a pretty mean starter though, so blocking it is recommended. I think she gets way more off that than she does off the 6B butt-bump @Pk: I KEEP on telling myself to confirm that into j.B but I fail. Every time and I realize after the fact...I probably will try one of these days. Yeah, this is me. I see the hit and I'm like "I should jump cancel!" and then I don't. I think even making the effort and having them tech out is better than letting them get away free.
pktazn Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 I have to admit it's pretty sad/somewhat frustrating because every time at casuals on Friday I tried to follow-up but they always tech'd right when Tsubaki was about to hit them.
Domethieus Posted September 11, 2011 Posted September 11, 2011 Not sure on where to post this but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRdZ89EqDVk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWlyG4PCEs Need help figuring out what to do. Diospyros was nice enough to get it recorded but sadly, it was netplay qq.
Airk Posted September 17, 2011 Posted September 17, 2011 (edited) I should be getting blown up on DJKoopa's stream shortly. :P Look for my 'trademark' blue&blonde Tsubaki. Sadly, he doesn't seem to save archives. Edit: Well, that didn't last long. I guess I caught it at the end of the fun. Edited September 17, 2011 by Airk
Daedron Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) I should be getting blown up on DJKoopa's stream shortly. :P Look for my 'trademark' blue&blonde Tsubaki. Sadly, he doesn't seem to save archives. Edit: Well, that didn't last long. I guess I caught it at the end of the fun. I'll be there to give some pep talks...about SARDINESSSS!!!!!! EDIT: Though it seems I was too late...very well, I'll just re-educate you next time! Edited September 18, 2011 by Daedron
BatousaiJ Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Dae! Did you know that Sardines are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, which reduce the occurrence of cardiovascular disease?! Sardines are truly the cure-all gift from the gods!
HajinShinobi Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 @Airk: You'll have to excuse my terribad play earlier today. Havent had much practice all week. I'll try to be at my peak next time we play. You are pretty damn good though ~
pktazn Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 So you're basically telling us... To eat more sardines! BRILLIANT.
Daedron Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) Gh! Just don't forget the name of this fish: Bathyprion danae Xenodermichthys nodulosus! ... Because it just sounds cool. PS. I believe this is something for Sardine discussion...I mean general. Not sure on where to post this but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRdZ89EqDVk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMWlyG4PCEs Need help figuring out what to do. Diospyros was nice enough to get it recorded but sadly, it was netplay qq. To be honest, I don't really have all that much to say, you seem to have a decent grasp on Tsu, good use of 214A - 22D reset too. The only thing I noticed were the 2 times you dropped your 623C - j.214A(whiff) combo. The first didn't connect cause you were too late on inputting j.214A and the 2nd didn't connect since it seems you didn't manage to do a DP, a 2C came out instead. I would just stick with the basic stuff until you know you can do it consistently each and every time, since dropping combos can cost you the match It would probably help if you played better players though. It's easier to give advice when you're actually playing people who are better than you are and I didn't get that from this Tao. Edited September 18, 2011 by Daedron
Airk Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 (edited) @Airk: You'll have to excuse my terribad play earlier today. Havent had much practice all week. I'll try to be at my peak next time we play. You are pretty damn good though ~ Pfft. You woulda completely destroyed me if you hadn't dropped some of those combos. My awesome 236A 'reset' came through for me a couple of times though. (Okay, so that's really just me dropping that combo, but the way it works out actually leaves me at advantage. x.x) I REALLY need to learn the timing for reversals on wakeup, because everytime I try to DP or wakeup super it doesn't come out and I just get clobbered. x.x Good games! I'm sorry about the connection though. I would've expected it to be better than that. =/ Edited September 18, 2011 by Airk
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