BlazBlue CS: Tier list

[felipebwk]

hey guy, smooshman, sorry for the joke "ice gay car freak" that I did with jin ....

the case is that I actually got a little "traumatized" by the "ice car" of CT. at that time I had no access to the game, and my friend, who used to be massacred in GG, used to crush my Ragna ...

in continuum shift the story has changed a lot ... XD, I came to scoring around 30-0, in my friend's jin ...

[dragontamer]

I was thinking about it too man ...

Ragy has a very good damage (4k + / 5-6k with heat), a spectacular gain of heat (D. Belial edge), wonderful "oki" game (22c), one of the best "pressure counter" (Jesus dragon punch, inferno divider, 623C), divine pokes (5b, 2b, 6a, jc ..), good mix up (compared to non-bang characters) and pressure (over head (6b), rapid cancel, 2b, death spike .....) and Soul heater to compensate for its defense weak ...

His only weakness and the absence of projectiles ...

I know that not having a reliable projectile can be a nightmare against characters that have a very strong zoning, but the overwhelming power that Ragna has always seemed to offset this weakness ...

I wonder, what is missing in it? improved mix up,beter 6b maybe, more pressure, a projectile (to get close)....

OBS: sorry for my english...

Beating Ragna's 22C is as simple as not teching and then blocking the "mixup" that is about to hit you. (ie: block low and then react to 6B). I would say the characters above Ragna do have better pressure than him, and also have similar amounts of damage. Hazama / Bang have command grabs, Litchi has absolutely godly Oki. Arakune has that curse pressure, and Carl has all of those damn resets and unblockables. (Carl's resets > Ragna 22C)

Now, Ragna's overhead option that seems to get me is his TK Gauntlet Hades. The fastest overhead in the game with 12+4 frames of startup (4 frames if you include the jump). I mean, sure, Ragna's pressure is better than Jin, Noel, Lambda, Hakumen, etc. etc. but I think I have more trouble with good Hazama / Bang / Litchi.

[skd]

Titanium hit the nail on the head.

Ragna has no reliable 50/50s if your opponent is well versed in his mixup. His mixup isnt so fantastic regardless, but he does hit hard, that is true.

welllll, there is ambiguous IADDP but that requires meter

i want a 50/50

[Dorian]

People are just pissy because their tier-whoring efforts are now for naught (Unless you picked Bang/Litchi evidentaly).

"Oh noez Raggy is dropping tier he sucks now! Must switch my main!"

[Arcade Fire87]

Yo, Lambda, call up that slut and tell her to bring her 2C with her

[Arcade Fire87]

It saddens me where Lambda is on the tier list now

Dacid says Severin was averging about 4-4.5K per hit for damage, and I have a very hard believing him. Yeah, I know, top Bang player, and he said Lambda does big damage if hit right...but...that doesn't seem right, the video's of Goro and Minori don't have them doing 4K and 4.5K's for a lot of stuff they hit unless certain conditions are met

Her damage output seems pretty awful if she can't force a big mistake like Stickbug said. Her big damage seems to come from corner loops, counters, and a really awful 236C. Without those three conditions, her damage seems really pathetic without meter, and god, does it feel like her meter build is awful unless a loop is involved. Without 2C her melee has gone to shit (2C was so broken though).

It certainly feels like everyone above her tier is significantly better, but I'm not at all saying that's a fact, and I'm sure I'm wrong.

I think what irks me now is not losing a godly 2C, or nerfed damage, but her swords are soooooooo slow. Meanwhile Hazama's zoning is so, so much better, along with a better close up game. He feels and does everything Lambda does, but much better (not including guard breaking).

It's not surprising she's B tier, but it really feels like she gets walked on by the characters Stickbug listed. A lot. She's partially an awesome character and partially really shitty

[huey253]

yeah, lambda is no nu LOL.

uhhhh outside of dropping damage for oki, taokaka more or less doesn't have good mixups.

she can't even combo off her overhead (6B) on half the cast and even then its not the easiest thing to confirm.

other than that, eh i think ragna is IN the top 6 but not the top 3.

[XDest]

6B does give adv on block and does work on more characters in CS than it did in CT. And on the people it does combo on, it will do ~4k. It also combos on everyone with meter.

But yeah, compared to some characters her up close mixup is lacking. But that's not where her main damage should be coming from anyways.

[Spirit Juice]

Makoto in DD tier.

[Afrikaan]

Makoto in DD tier.

We talking Cup Size or Distortion Drives:psyduck:

[severin]

4-4.5k

I was getting a lot of random spike chaser hits and 2D hits, I do not think either are to be considered in the "average" range for lambda, since she shouldn't be hitting with those two all that often.

[Arcade Fire87]

I was getting a lot of random spike chaser hits and 2D hits, I do not think either are to be considered in the "average" range for lambda, since she shouldn't be hitting with those two all that often.

Yeah, exactly. I knew Dacid would be obnoxious if I tried to argue with him so I let it go. But watching a lot of top Lambda players, they're only getting 4K damage if they force major mistakes.

[Spirit Juice]

We talking Cup Size or Distortion Drives:psyduck:

You be the judge.

[huey253]

I was getting a lot of random spike chaser hits and 2D hits, I do not think either are to be considered in the "average" range for lambda, since she shouldn't be hitting with those two all that often.

we're in america so, landing several of these are totally legit :P

[TD]

Ragna didn't change much since CT.

He got what most the cast recieved: new move, more damage. More meter (but this would be the case in CT if he had longer combos, so l wouldn't really count this as a "change") He literally didn't make much of a transition at all. He's classy CT Ragna.

[dorushi]

i gotta agree with stick except take out the tad bit in front of the worse than everyone above her, she just straight out feels worse, also lambda gets good damage off 4b but people souldnt be getting hit with that. also the reason most people cant understand ragna is because alot of us(including me) dont understand defense and get hit by his stupid stuff(6b, yea i think getting hit by it is stupid but it happens to me alot) online.

This isnt the best place to ask but is the lambda vs haz still 5-5, haz can react to lambdas mistake but not really the other way around(it possible I dont understand this matchup at all)

[TD]

HAZ v. LA is like 6-4 haz favor.

[skd]

Zidane, any ideas as to why hazama suddenly shot up into top 3 though he wasnt 4th before? What made him suddenly skip haku/carl? o_o

[dorushi]

HAZ v. LA is like 6-4 haz favor.

oh ok i forgot where but i got had the idea it was even or slightly in his favor when it doesnt feel that way at all

[mAc Chaos]

This chart seems good to me. Hazama's been getting better and better, and I haven't felt like he's had that big a weakness against Haku when I play against Haz.

Sure, I can supposedly cut the chains, but you pretty much have to predict it, he can throw them out all he wants, half the C moves are too slow or have just don't cover enough range (j.C) to matter when it comes to cutting, and if you miss you're screwed. I feel like he can zone Haku pretty well, he can get a life lead and run run run. It depends on how good the Hazama is though. If he can't keep you out then it ends pretty quick.

On that note, just speaking from personal experience, I don't think the Haku Lambda matchup is as bad for Lambda as it originally appeared. (I kind of got that impression just from watching match vids before CS came out too so it fits.) She can still zone him pretty well. If the Lambda player has gotten comfortable with all of her tools, then I have a hell of a hard time getting in. (Although the number of players who can actually effectively use her like that can counted on one hand instead of anyone who picked up Nu for a few minutes and could hit buttons.) But again I'm sure there's more to the story with Lambda having so many nerfs.

I never thought Ragna was that big a deal. You just need matchup experience. If the Ragna player brings in RC shenanigans then it changes things a bit but that's still something you can learn and be ready for.

[Shockna]

Where is Mu on this list?

I understand Makoto hasn't been out long enough to judge well yet (I'm guessing, anyway), but what of Mu? Hasn't she been available long enough to collect enough data to make an estimate as to where on the list she belongs?

[Arcade Fire87]

Is Haku v Lambda a bad matchup now, I thought it was even? ...I don't think I lost a legit game against one except a few from Mac. Even then, it felt more like Lambda's favor.

It's interesting, before Hazama was ranked just under Lambda, now he's low S/high A tier. I don't think I have a hard time believing it now though, he's just so solid. He feels kinda like CT jin to me

The Japanese have learned to shut Ragna down. IB his shit and react to overheads. Ragna will always be S tier in America gameplay though :3

[huey253]

j2A is your friend mac chaos btw

[mAc Chaos]

Well, everyone always talked about it like Lambda was never gonna win a match against Haku again. :P I don't know if our matches are representative since it was early on into the game and with more matchup experience it would probably be different. I never really advanced past that though since the netcode is so terrible. But yeah, from personal experience, I agree.

j2A is your friend mac chaos btw

Yeah, I know, but that's too slow to do on reaction. You have to do it on prediction. If the Hazama is any good, he knows you're looking to cut his chains, and he's not just going to just throw them at me to make them easy to cut. If I predict wrong and whiff the j.2A, THEN he can throw the snake and CH me, and if I end up doing nothing he can throw it out and have me block it, etc. That's just from my experience though, and you can still cut it now and then. But it doesn't really define the match or anything.

[huey253]

if you got him to stop throwing chains at you because your cutting them, it think you won that part of the battle.

its not matchup defining or anything, i was just noted that.

i thought lambda vs hakumen actually lambda's favor