Spinzaku Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 It's not that it's tighter execution, it's that you can't delay it, it has to be done as quickly as possible. Basically you can't hitconfirm 5b into 3c. Assuming that is what we're left with, 5B>3C would become something like 5B>5C>3C or 5B>2C>3C ? They prorate the same if they're not the 1st hit of the combo (5C is 100/89, 2C is 90/89). Who am I kidding, that would still suck. 5B being +2 on block makes it just that good for hit confirming. If they're going to do that I hope they make 6A a little faster on startup.
kazukifafner Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 As long as 5B > 3C still connects, there shouldn't be any need to worry. Learning to execute things more tightly is never a bad thing. Even if you couldn't, you could still use 5C and 2C to help with BnBs. The "slightly slower" chains might effect certain chain reps, but other than that I wouldn't worry too much for now. I don't really have a wishlist, to be honest. I'm just waiting to see what happens.
Arifureta Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Tighter doesn't mean impossible. :V If you really want another hitconfirm, every A looks like it retains its properties.
Coinage Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Before anyone complains about a singular potential nerf to one gatling, Hazama is potentially S tier right now. They need to take something away from him if they're taking away as much as they are from Litchi and Bang. Hazama is top TIER? Anyway if you look at the characters, they tell you which are getting strengthen and which are getting weaken. So to them, they might be trying to balance the fairness then. For example, i looked at the litchi thread and they said how they are taking away of her main bnb.
Hexagram_RX Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Depending on the real speed decrease on chains I don't think there's anything to worry about. I doubt anyone should be running their stock of chains to 0 often as well.
Arifureta Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 ^ That shouldn't even be that big of a deal since hitting your opponent with the chain brings it back up to 2 again.
Hexagram_RX Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Hence why you shouldn't be running out unless you're one of the hazamas that absolutely has to launch yourself somewhere with every chain you use. Was just pointing out these nerfs aren't going to affect much as it stands now. And the 5b > 3c is pretty minor as well. Annoying but minor.
WUT Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 5B nerf doesn't hurt his BnB, it hurts his close range game. Being a lower level means it no longer has frame advantage on block, which wrecks the mediocre pressure options he already has. As mentioned already, slower chains will probably only affect FC combos, which only slightly lowers his max damage. Losing ~200 damage off his max damage combo isn't really worth mentioning. Slower chain gauge refilling: meh. Just means you'll need to be more careful with your zoning and positioning. Just put a little more effort into playing smarter. Honestly I'd rather see a nerf to Jayoku's damage potential and exchange that for a stronger close range game. Make 6B and 6C useful normals (wishlist: 6B faster startup and a 6B feint added for throw mixup, 6C reaches aerial state earlier for throw baits and throw mixup) and let a CH Jabaki lead to a stronger combo so it's more of a threatening special move.
NumeroGaijin Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Actually a CH jabaki does lead to some impressive damage output if you rc it in the corner. Heck if you hit with a 5b and then hit with Jabki you can rapid into houtenjin for a pretty nice damaging combo.
JinSaotome Posted September 10, 2010 Author Posted September 10, 2010 in corner, you can do CH Jabaki -> 5C 2C 4D 4D 214B#, etc... so its great in the corner for frame traps, mid range poking, etc. It'd be pretty boss if you could do midscreen CH Jabaki -> j.6D~D -> 5C 2C 4D 4D 214B#, though.
Sol.Badguy Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Wouldn't that be nice if CH jabaki had the same hit-stun proporties at Rachel's 6B in CT? x]
Guardian Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 It'd be pretty boss if you could do midscreen CH Jabaki -> j.6D~D -> 5C 2C 4D 4D 214B#, though. You can if you RC. Am I the only one that thinks Jabaki is fine the way it is? I mean, it's safe, mid range (where he sucks most), gives 5k+ on corner CH, 3k+ midscreen w/ 50%...any buffs to it would make it OP, and any nerfs would make it horrid imo.
Sol.Badguy Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 You can if you RC. Am I the only one that thinks Jabaki is fine the way it is? I mean, it's safe, mid range (where he sucks most), gives 5k+ on corner CH, 3k+ midscreen w/ 50%...any buffs to it would make it OP, and any nerfs would make it horrid imo. Oh yea you're totally right, I think people are just saying for fun tho :]
Spinzaku Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 You can if you RC. Am I the only one that thinks Jabaki is fine the way it is? I mean, it's safe, mid range (where he sucks most), gives 5k+ on corner CH, 3k+ midscreen w/ 50%...any buffs to it would make it OP, and any nerfs would make it horrid imo. I can agree with that. Jabaki is fine as is. I guess with the whole "slower chains" bit I would expect that I can't [4D~A]x2>4D~D every time now. Or maybe we'll require a bit more adjustment mid-combo. That or no more 4 chain jayoku combos. They said it wasn't terribly noticeable but we still don't know a whole lot. :|
Eclipse Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Yeah, even though they say the changes aren't terribly noticeable. We don't know if this is coming from Hazama mains or not. I'm sure any decent Hazama player would notice more subtle things about the character. As anyone maining a character in a game would. And all the Jabaki talk is mainly for fun. I'd enjoy being able to combo more off of it. And a 3K CH Jabaki combo mid-screen? RC'ing it doesn't really make it stable as is. I don't think it would be too overpowered with more combo ability. Since good players will be more careful about you scoring a CH.
NumeroGaijin Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 I think that if the chains are slower then they should make the cancel recovery better.
Seifuuku Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 i'm not sure how you would combo off CH jabaki as it will slide them out of range.. regular hit, sure.
weika Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Honestly I'd rather see a nerf to Jayoku's damage potential and exchange that for a stronger close range game. Make 6B and 6C useful normals (wishlist: 6B faster startup and a 6B feint added for throw mixup, 6C reaches aerial state earlier for throw baits and throw mixup) and let a CH Jabaki lead to a stronger combo so it's more of a threatening special move. This. CH Jabaki leading into a high damage combo will make him too good imo though.
furix Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 http://www.justin.tv/phoenonxx/b/267241412 a bit unrelated but.. is that the ASUS VW246H? :s... it's the monitor I have. Either way, I see Hazama's changes as not being bad at all.
IkeTakeda Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 5b being nerf= sad.. chain slower= sad slower regeneration for ouroboros= sad. Makes me troll less now.
Spinzaku Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 Honestly it won't change Hazama's zoning game THAT much. In my eyes the only major problem is the 5B changes. No more hit confirming 5B into whatever the hell you want/any time you want. also keep in mind that this is only the first loketest blah blah blah
J-KT21 Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 Before anyone complains about a singular potential nerf to one gatling, Hazama is potentially S tier right now. They need to take something away from him if they're taking away as much as they are from Litchi and Bang. I agree with you on that one. But making his execution harder won't make him any less good. Slowing down his drives is reasonable (unless it becomes turtle-slow). But downing 5B's hitstun is pretty retarded in my opinion. Out of everything, they chose this? Making close-range hit confirming harder? Like, are you serious? Couldn't they think of something else? I don't know, it just feels like they're testing out very random fixes.
Almadiel Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 I think a subtle speed nerf on his chains is exactly what he needs. The nerf on his gauge recover time is also warranted, since it will prevent him from whiffing chains for huge momentum as often. His approach game is just a little too strong right now.
Black Onslaught Posted September 11, 2010 Posted September 11, 2010 With 5B's level down, that means no more +2 frame advantage, so we can kiss that " 5B > 2A watch them mash so we get a free CH combo " goodbye. The people saying his chains were slowed said it didn't feel like it was slowed, as for ouroborous stocks, just force them to block to get them back to 2. ... Unless they take that away.
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