[CS2] Hazama Changes Thread

[Eclipse]

If they take that away Black Onslaught, Hazama will end up really terrible. Or much harder to play. I think things looks pretty good as they are now. With the nerfs to other characters, I have a feeling Hazama could raise to S tier. In my opinion, all they'd really need to do was make the damage a bit less off of Jayoku, etc. But they certainly shouldn't get rid of his Jayoku followups or corner combos, since that would destroy all his high damage options.

[Black Onslaught]

I think they should leave Jayoku where it's at. That's where he gets his big damage and what makes him so legit.

With this loketest we lost the frametrap of 5B and we can't really hitconfirm 5B > 3C, that link got tighter or so fromw hat they're saying. As long as 3C doesn't get raped like Ragna's 3C I don't mind.

[Spinzaku]

I think that a lot of Hazama's non-zoning strengths come from his abare game anyways. Most hit confirms can lead into the standard j.214B# and random chain hits can land just about any combo you want, midscreen, corner, haz in corner, etc. With 50 heat, he's a character that is deserving of a lot of respect from the opponent else they'll eat a free 4.5k+ combo that builds nearly all the spent heat back.

I don't think they'll completely destroy any character since they seemed to have learned their ways with Rachel.

[Eclipse]

I don't know Spinzaku. Ragna's looking a little desolate, haha. No wallbounce on ID just seems awful to me. I guess it still does a little bit in the corner. I just hate the characters who can get ~5K without a specific setup. And I thought Litchi was one of them. She may need the corner, but it's easy to carry people over there. Honestly, I'm not a Litchi main or sub, so I wouldn't know.

Anyways, I just read 3C causes float now. Good or bad? Not 100% sure on that term. Would that work like 214D~C? Sounds kind of sketchy, but I'll post the link anyways:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9792-BBCS-News-only.-Anything-else-TEMPBAN.-Valkenhayn-DLC!-BBCS-2-for-arcades!&p=752791#post752791

(third post from the bottom)

[Tetra - K]

Chains slower probably means less chains in combo as said earlier some people.

Now just think about the j6D combo.

In 5B>3C>214D~C>5C>2C>6D>4D>... the 4D will maybe not be able to hit and not be able to put the opponent at the right position to 623D. And more, if there's a bigger delay after the 623D just forget the j6D combo and any other 623D combo in corner (even the one with jayoku inside for 5500~6000 damage).

[Spinzaku]

I don't know Spinzaku. Ragna's looking a little desolate, haha. No wallbounce on ID just seems awful to me. I guess it still does a little bit in the corner. I just hate the characters who can get ~5K without a specific setup. And I thought Litchi was one of them. She may need the corner, but it's easy to carry people over there. Honestly, I'm not a Litchi main or sub, so I wouldn't know.

Anyways, I just read 3C causes float now. Good or bad? Not 100% sure on that term. Would that work like 214D~C? Sounds kind of sketchy, but I'll post the link anyways:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9792-BBCS-News-only.-Anything-else-TEMPBAN.-Valkenhayn-DLC!-BBCS-2-for-arcades!&p=752791#post752791

(third post from the bottom)

Every time I look at the changes I remind myself that this is just the first loketest of many to come, so I'm confident that Arcsys will learn from their past mistakes and actually balance the game this time. They did pretty well with AC+.

But yeah, Ragna and Litchi are looking pretty shitty right now.

[Fiedrik]

I think Bang got it the worst out of everyone lol. No dp wallbounce screws his combos by a lot. Hazama's nerfs are acceptable imo, its not like the bnbs will change too much. It would be nice to see a buff that would make 6a, 6b, and jabaki a bit more useful. I like the idea of 6a and 6b being special cancel-able, but if he gets buffed like that he might very well become S tier.

[kazukifafner]

I guess one thing I'd like is to have CH Jabaki give a more diagonal launch than a straight launch.

[fohstick]

a bit unrelated but.. is that the ASUS VW246H? :s... it's the monitor I have.

Either way, I see Hazama's changes as not being bad at all.

i have the same one, too. too bad the contrast ratio is pretty low

[fohstick]

I guess one thing I'd like is to have CH Jabaki give a more diagonal launch than a straight launch.

i like the straight launch, especially when it's a CH. the opponent just slides their face into the ground

[Seifuuku]

I think they should leave Jayoku where it's at. That's where he gets his big damage and what makes him so legit.

With this loketest we lost the frametrap of 5B and we can't really hitconfirm 5B > 3C, that link got tighter or so fromw hat they're saying. As long as 3C doesn't get raped like Ragna's 3C I don't mind.

level 3 has 17f of hitstun on hit, 3c start up is 14f, so you have 3f to confirm+13f hitstop+5f input buffer. since they are decreasing the level to 2 (level 1 5b into 3c would not combo at all) you will have 0f to confirm (14f hitstun 14f start up on 3c), 12f hitstop and 5f input buffer

[Eclipse]

^ So will we always have to followup 5B with 3C immediately now for the combo? I'm guessing because of the decreased level, you could no longer use 5B > 214D~A/C. No more serpent's benediction from that will change things a bit.

[Fireryda]

decreased level shouldnt affect gatlings.

you should stil be able to do that unless they remove it.

[Seifuuku]

it'd be like.. noel's 2c to 3c on a crouching opponent (19f hitstun on 2c, 19f start up on 3c) or jin's 5c ch to 6c.. probably a bit off because noel's 2c is 2 part and 5c ch has more hit stop, but it'd be similar..

edit: but yes, as 5b doesn't have any special properties, it should still just gatling to 3c just fine.. "0f" to input it is sort of misleading, you still have hitstop+input buffer anyway

[Eclipse]

If it gatlings, combos should be just as easy, right? The only difference this would really make is with hit-confirming then? And Hit-stun, etc. This is only the first loketest anyways. I'd even be okay with them nerfing Hazama more since these changes are so slight.

[Tetra - K]

Personnally, I am wondering on the speed of the chains which is slowed. Directly from nothing there shouldn't be any changes, but in combos maybe some of the combo we knew will simply disapear.

Number of chains reduced and I'm pretty sure the j.6D combo won't work anymore.

Any news about the speed of chains?

[Rylentless]

TBH, dont think that the changes made so far will affect his game that much.

Most (like the ouroborous changes) are that bad. Just means that he cant spam chains as much now and the first 4D from the "5B 3C 214D~C 5C 2C 4D 4DD j.Cx5 (j.c) j.Cx5 214B" BnB may need to be dropped.

As long as there is a way to catch them in a j.Cx5 (j.c) j.Cx5 214B then everyone will be happy.

Hazama imho is still likely to be A tier in BBCS2. At least he didnt bite the nerfstick like bang and his 623B not wall bouncing.

[Sharakonta]

From what I'm seein in the patch almost no difference in the chains and the 5B to 3C timing is just a bit harder like it said but shouldn't be a real problem.

[eirei]

Wrong patch.

[Sharakonta]

So I realized, I was comin to get rid of said post when my net went down >.<

[Ghost Beef]

Yup... the 5B nerf is going to mess with me for so freakin long if they leave it like that...

ONE HIT COMBO BNB FTW

[Millian_Shadows]

Sheesh, this sounds like it's going to be a pain to deal with if 5b into 3 changes that dramatically. but seeing as we have no video evidence, guess i just gotta wait it out.

[fohstick]

Now just think about the j6D combo.

http://img.imgcake.com/fohstick/1285521281505ty.png

[Redefinition]

I'd love to see j.214B become an overhead. I mean, for christ's sake, even if it wouldn't be as good as 6A or 214D~A. :|

[Sol.Badguy]

you know what I'd like to see? J.214B bounce somehow so we can get our own crescent loop combo :]