What is the best FC in the game?

[severin]

What about Bang's 5A?

Overrated.

[rei-Scarred]

Severin is that quote from your sig real...

If it is why the fuck is that guy still allowed to post.

On topic, I agree with Stickbug's post this thread is done.

[farranpoison]

Severin is that quote from your sig real...

If it is why the fuck is that guy still allowed to post.

On topic, I agree with Stickbug's post this thread is done.

Sadly, yes, it is a real post. Well, from a chat, but whatever.

[mAc Chaos]

This thread is gdlk.

Hotaru requires extra meter to get the big damage off it, but you guys are probably already factoring that into your judgements.

[-Ladon-]

Have you ever air-dashed at someone thinking it was your turn? Never? Oh, ok.

I understand what you're trying to say, but whenever I IAD into a hazama and he's in stance already I barrier asap(then again, I doubt i've ever fought a top level hazama)

in all honesty the majority of the times I take his DP it's rarely charged because it doesn't seem like you can react and get to charged before IAD-long range air normal hits him out of it, it seems like more of a yomi thing to eat charged because he knows you're going to eventually get impatient enough to rush in.(should also be noted I play Ragna, I don't know how other characters match up to it, I can imagine a few getting absolutely raped by it, like tager's delaying jumpins with j.2C and makoto's j.2C)

I'll say it's a really solid fatal all in all, due to safety reasons but I'd expect more hazamas to be doing reaction 2Cs rather than 214D-charge-B

[Zidane]

Yes the previous two posts were pretty much troll posts. First was pretty much "I have to go in a few minutes so I'll just give this lol reply." Second was pure trolling and an old meme I thought that needed repeating.

Best at mashing 5A.

In all seriousness, I guess it really comes down to as to what you consider what makes a FC a good one. As a player, I put practicality on a pretty high list of priorities when it comes to ranking combos, damage, pokes, etc., and since Jayoku is a great reversal and leads to FCs in most situations, I put it above Hotaru (even though the damage difference between normal hit and FC is not blow-off-your-pants good anyways). While Hotaru is great, FC Hotaru isn't seen very often unless the person makes a mistake due to poor judgement. I would still put Jayoku over Hotaru, with Hotaru as a close second.

Had to quote whole post cause typing on iPhone. I mean, your last paragraph I pretty much agree with completely... If the question was which move was better. Like I feel like you and a lot of other players are ranking hotenjin so high because what it can do, not what it can do off fatal. If this was a thread about "what's the scariest move to get by or CH by", I'd say that hotenjin is NUMBAH 1. Or 2. But it can't possibly win best fatal. It just can't. Too many other moves surpass it in damage off FC compared to damage off regular. And in my mind I thought that's what the point of this thread was; what moves provide the best reward off FCs and how often you can get that FC. I agree pretty much with stickbugs list f best fatals. Maybe replace hazamas 214db but I dunno.

[Spirit Juice]

It really depends on what you think is a good FC, I guess. In that case I think Carl's j.B or whatever the fuck it is is the best FC because I'm a big gay homo fag and love shota.

[Henaki]

tagers 2c is ass.

ragnas 2c and hotaru are likely the best.

[Zidane]

Cool. Now that we determined this thread can ever give a definite answer can we close it and read gay shotalolicon together?

[Henaki]

Cool. Now that we determined this thread can ever give a definite answer can we close it and read gay shotalolicon together?

no, spirits too busy locking threads because of "blatant ec bias" without actually making an argument

spose he could lock this thread for that though.

[Spirit Juice]

EC loses at everything. Not my fault.

[Henaki]

do you live in the same fantasy universe as hellmonkey?

[Zidane]

Dodgemonkey and dodgejake, sitting in a tree

D-O-D-G-I-N-G

first comes ego, then comes bullshit, then comes the shitposts in a shitpost thread!

[Henaki]

for the record spirit, no one has actually made a compelling argument as to why hazama isnt #3. im sure WC #1 could easily come up with a well thought out, well spoken argument as to WHY this is the case. but instead all i receive is "nigga u ec". i implore you provide a small, reasonably well made post by someone (anyone by the way) as to why another character is CLEARLY better than hazama. this post can not be from more than 3 months ago when america did (and in many cases still does) think ragna is #3.

but of course, basing my thoughts on intelligent discourse is pretty difficult, when im illiterate due to my coastal region, or something.

until then, im basing my fact of hazama #3 due to the metagame (him having the least bad matchups out of the other characters competing with his spot, making him a much stronger metagame character).

[NerdJosh]

EC loses at everything. Not my fault.

You play blazblue... you already lost...

[Gog_]

Henaki iirc SJ(and other people) never said Hazama wasn't 3rd in the other 2 threads. They just didn't like you and Zidane putting him into S tier with Litchi and Bang so he thinks you guys put him so high because you have the best EC Hazama( or at least one of the best US Hazama/BB players in general). Also not sure where this WC/EC stuff is coming from, thought SJ knew Alz and some of you guys. Anyways its BB, no need to be serious since its not SSF4

EDIT- forgot to address the topic, Hotaru is the best for previous reasons, Rachel's 5C is the worst FC in CS. Barely any extra damage( if any since you mostly land it when you're out of wind by accident) slow, very punishable and horrible range.

[Sophisticat]

I'll just say I agree with Spirit's stance that Jayoku's placement depends on your definition of what makes a good FC move. If, after all, our criteria for "best" implies purely the extra damage we get off the move, then Haku's full charge 6c is the best thing ever. Stickbug made a great post (the kind of which we need more of on DL), so I applaud it even though I disagree with its final assessment.

@Stick: Haku's Yukikaze can combo. Kishuu after the slash will get you close, then you can either 5c or 2c depending on which combo you want to do. But yeah, FC on it is pretty useless since there's not much you can do with just 3 stars (assuming you started with 8 the moment you Yuki'd). It can go up to 6k if you're in the corner, I think. Haven't really tested Yuki combos in CS, though.

[St1ckBuG]

For my rankings, the placings are clearly my opinion and need to be taken with a grain of salt, but I still think the top 4 are the top 4. Regardless of whether you can combo off of Yukikaze, it's a counter-super... counter-supers are generally never good.

==================DE-RAIL==================

EC v WC shit is just trolling.

The only time we ever play one another is at EVO, since neither side travels to the other for some shitty major with a 'low' turn out (the only game this isn't really true for is Melty). And even if both coasts were to travel to EVO, the best from the EC would probably never make an appearance because that's too much money to spend on just one weekend.

GG is 'dead' so no one will travel solely for GG anymore (but Seasons Beatings could change this) and anyone who actually gives a shit about BB isn't part of the WC vs. EC shit-talk because no one really cares about that game in the US except for LK (and maybe Vet?).

It's all brainless talk that we get from results. When CT was out, WC was getting raped by Nu while we had Litchi/Ragna/Rachel/Jin winning all of our tournaments, so in the end we talked shit about them losing all the time to top tier (even though we didn't have a gdlk Nu on the EC... I know Rachel is top tier, shhhhhhhhhh). WC talks shit about EC because we have a bunch of 'no-names' that no one has ever head of. They look at results and results aren't there, so: 'Who the hell is X? I don't see him in top 3?'.

The cycle will continue until the day that the US is shrunk down to the size of Japan.

This topic needs to be clooooooosed before it's too late... O wait... it already is.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Going back a little, I would say that with meter, Ragna can reliably get 8k with FC 2C using Blood Kain. Key word is 'reliably'. 9k+ only happens if you are already in Blood Kain, which usually works like this; you bait some huge move (like houtenjin) with a BK activation and then FC 2C their CH-state recovery, chain directly into 6D and start 6D-j.D(whiff) loops. This is how you get 9k+ with Ragna, it can happen in a real match, but it's not common at ALL.

As for 2C not FCing often, depends on how you use it. You're not gonna see it in the typical frame traps because most people are not going to swing on Ragna during his blockstrings unless he commits to something. Like, 2AxN-2C is a good frametrap until people realize they can just block and wait for him to push himself out or do some slow move that can be interrupted on reaction. It's STILL a good string due to how many options 2C gives on block, but FC in that situation is rare. On the other hand, run up naked 2C in ambiguous situations is far more likely to FC (since this is BB and people don't like to block on defense sometimes), plus the options off of blocked 2C are good enough that you can still start an offense if it's blocked point blank. It can actually be better than 2AxN in this respect, especially since it gives +1 on normal block and has a great variety of cancels for mixup purposes. 2A is much more flexible though and the pushout is a definite factor when you're playing Ragna.

I agree that Hotaru is probably the best FC in the game, though it's almost the same as the Houtenjin scenario where Hotaru is just a good move period and the damage boost off of a FC coupled with how likely it will FC in a real match is questionable. The basis of that argument is kind of silly though, because how often do you see a CH happen in a serious match in almost any fighting game? Good players like to block.

[Blade]

Going back a little, I would say that with meter, Ragna can reliably get 8k with FC 2C using Blood Kain. Key word is 'reliably'. 9k+ only happens if you are already in Blood Kain, which usually works like this; you bait some huge move (like houtenjin) with a BK activation and then FC 2C their CH-state recovery, chain directly into 6D and start 6D-j.D(whiff) loops. This is how you get 9k+ with Ragna, it can happen in a real match, but it's not common at ALL.

As for 2C not FCing often, depends on how you use it. You're not gonna see it in the typical frame traps because most people are not going to swing on Ragna during his blockstrings unless he commits to something. Like, 2AxN-2C is a good frametrap until people realize they can just block and wait for him to push himself out or do some slow move that can be interrupted on reaction. It's STILL a good string due to how many options 2C gives on block, but FC in that situation is rare. On the other hand, run up naked 2C in ambiguous situations is far more likely to FC (since this is BB and people don't like to block on defense sometimes), plus the options off of blocked 2C are good enough that you can still start an offense if it's blocked point blank. It can actually be better than 2AxN in this respect, especially since it gives +1 on normal block and has a great variety of cancels for mixup purposes. 2A is much more flexible though and the pushout is a definite factor when you're playing Ragna.

I agree that Hotaru is probably the best FC in the game, though it's almost the same as the Houtenjin scenario where Hotaru is just a good move period and the damage boost off of a FC coupled with how likely it will FC in a real match is questionable. The basis of that argument is kind of silly though, because how often do you see a CH happen in a serious match in almost any fighting game? Good players like to block.

In my mind, FCs come in two types: combos that do damage and combos that give advantage. The term "Fatal Counter" might actually be a misnomer in some cases. You wouldn't notice it otherwise in normal gameplay, but believe it or not FC Hotaru prorates like hell if Unlimited Hakumen uses it (even if he gets 8k on average from it, that's a pittance VS other Unlims, especially Unlim Tager who has 16k HP). The reason Hotaru is so good is because it does damage AND gives advantage.

An FC that gives advantage would probably be an FC that's actually "easy" to use and less situational, like Makoto's D's, they're nice on block and take away a primer, link into eachother in the corner even if they don't hit from counter and just overall Makoto benefits from them (assuming you've gotten the timing down, I know lots of decent players who have so this is reasonable). Another FC that gives advantage are Arakune's curse dive cancel loop combos...they don't do nearly as much damage (3k maybe), but their sole purpose is to give him curse, which is where his real damage begins.

I would think that FCs designed for "damage" in mind would be a lot harder to do than "advantage" FCs. Not only do you have to fish for them, but in some cases they are costly if blocked or you messed up the timing. To me, this is what Ragna's 2C is. While it is nice, it's hard as hell to land, and even if you do land it, sometimes you don't land it close enough where Ragna can actually use it for those 9k combos people drool over. And to be honest, Final Ultima's combos are probably the most exaggerated and HARDEST combos I've ever come across, and you'll never find any of that stuff practical in a match. It's just sheerly about the damage numbers in that case. I think in most matchup situations I've barely eked out 5k without meter (no BK) from his FC. I'm not a talentless hack, I punish where I see recovery frames, I look for opportunity, but I also know that in most situations you have to weigh when it's useful to use Blood Kain or not as well.

That said, I've also seen plenty of "wiffed" Hotarus from good players, and I've punished what I saw accordingly. So Hotaru may be a good FC, but it doesn't have a good batting average from what I've seen so far.

[AKA]

Wahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

Whatever happened to the 1337?

/putts off on fat scooter

Also EC vs. WC is /popcorn, so please continue!

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Um, unless you're just throwing out 2C willy-nilly, you should almost always be in range for at least FC 2C-6C with Ragna. If you have meter, that's gonna be 8k. It's not hard or impractical, even. If you can do 6D-j.D(whiff) loops, you can do 8k off of FC 2C. If it has a serious weakness, it's that someone with a Burst can screw you over for trying or force you to do a really suboptimal combo. Of course, free damage is free damage, and a baited Burst in that situation usually means death, so it's whatever.

Also, lol at Makoto having easy-to-use FCs. Her D moves are terrible on block and in some cases they leave her in CH state, level 3 or not.

Stay Bladelike, Blade.

[qwerty]

I don't want to talk shit about WC in this thread but I coulda sworn I saw you get bodied at NCI because you were too busy trying to block by mashing buttons. But hey, what do I know, I'm pretty ass at this game.

i could've sworn ec was letting free ass motherfuckers like nas take second/third place at majors

Glad you care about EC though. I feel loved.

it's more than a feeling

[notsogos]

oh this thread boiled down into wc vs ec my favorite

can i join

ok

wc is gay because they are dickfaggots l0l

ok brb going over every wc tourney result to find no-names

edit:

...I'm not a talentless hack...

LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[qwerty]

i have nothing but love for you sogos-chan~ <3