Jmyster Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) In the news thread. Loketest thread has been updated as well. And it seems, all changes from the last test have stayed unless otherwise mentioned/shown in the character sections. Edited August 26, 2011 by Jmyster
ryokoalways Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 The decreased cd is absurd. I can't imagine that sticking. At the most returning it back to 120F (which is what it was in CS1) should be enough. 90F would make every combo that requires 3 magatamas or less end in the positive. They would have to severely tweak his proration and other properties on certain moves to reduce the length of his combos to prevent constant meter gain (6A blow back for instance). I'd prefer if they tweaked his normals instead. Some of them really need to be reworked a little to have unique applications. If this sticks though, I'm just going to mash hotaru to victory.
mAc Chaos Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 His heat gain used to be way faster, so it can't be that bad.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 With a cool down of 90 frames, how much meter gain are we looking at in any typical bnb?
mAc Chaos Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 Well, he said a 3 star combo would end in positive, meaning you'd gain 4 stars during those typical wallbounce combos. Wait, I think I just confused myself...
ryokoalways Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 I don't remember what value it was at in CT (I thought it was 120F), but he was lacking in so many categories that whatever meter he can get his hands on it doesn't matter because jump FD beats anything he can try to do. I'm pretty sure CS1 is 120F, where it was possible to maintain 3-4 magatamas even with liberal use of hotaru. 90F is a ridiculous value. Let's use hotaru combo as an example: With 90F, you would start gaining meter starting from the second hit (jC>gurren in this example). If meter gain per hit and auto gain is not tweaked, you can probably add anywhere from .7 to .9 to your current gain. Likewise, for a tsubaki corner, if the combo remains the same, you would start gaining meter before you have to 2C after the 6C. Basically, you can gain about 2-3 hits worth of meter in addition to what you currently can get (there will be exceptions, but I think this would apply as the general rule). You won't get 4 for spending 3, but breaking even or getting something like 3.2 for 3 spent, is still really absurd.
mAc Chaos Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 Wasn't his problem in this iteration that he didn't have enough stars to do enough damage? So now even if they leave the rest of his traits intact it might be enough to overcome his weaknesses.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 snip So basically at minimum you would break even in magatama use for your combos is what you're saying. Wasn't his problem in this iteration that he didn't have enough stars to do enough damage? So now even if they leave the rest of his traits intact it might be enough to overcome his weaknesses. his problems are more multi faceted and at the same time slightly benign than that. One of his problems is slow meter gain, another is most of his slashes got a slight damage and/or slower start up/recovery. Which adds to his lack luster mid screen combos. Of course, among other things.
zreb Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) Curious about this note from the new loktest thread: j.b - Air untechable time increased, can now j.2a during the 2nd half(?) of the move It's worded (probably translated) strangely, but I'm wondering if it means you can link j.B into j.2a without jump cancelling now? Or actually, I guess it could easily mean late gatling too... Being noted right after a comment on untech time threw me off, though. Edited August 26, 2011 by zreb
Spark Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 Well to combo into j.2A even if it's a late chain j.B would need more untechable time anyway. So I'm assuming they're saying that j.B has more untechable time, so that the new j.2A late chain will combo. As a bonus the IAD j.A > j.B > 2C combos will be easier at least. And for the cool down buff, I'll be satisfied with the 3 star combos breaking even in terms of meter gain because assuming you start with 3 stars and land an overhead it sucks that at the end of the combo after knockdown you lose the option to do another overhead(at least for a little while). Also I don't think 41236C actually had any cool down in CT or CS1, but I could be wrong.
ryokoalways Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 Regarding jB>j2A, the application I have in mind is actually as a replacement for 6A>5A>j2A combo piece in certain situations. Since that is no longer applicable, in situations where you want to do a carry. So, let's use the combo Spark did during evo (4C>gurren>hop 5A>6A>5A>j2A>etc); you would replace 5A>6A>etc with 5A>jA (may need sj)>jB>j2A>AD j2A>jC. Some new stuff: 5C>renka(2)> IAD delay jB>5C>2B>gurren>IAD jB>5A>jA>jB>j3A>jC for 3818. Sounds like amazing carry. May be able to replace ending component with what I have above. jB>5C also work due to jB's new untechable time. 5B starter is 2947. Corner 6A>6C>2C for 2 loop into knockdown for about 3900. Possible with 6A wall bounce. back throw into enma combo end in jC for 2707. Gurren also work with back throw now. forward throw>gurren>hop 5A>jA>jB>j2A>AD j2A>jC 4C(full)>5C>renka(1)>kishuu>6C>2 loop into knockdown 3C for 5818. 6C(fatal)>4C(full)>5C>renka(1)>kishuu>6C>2 loop into knockdown 3C for 7267. Pretty impressive for 3 magatamas. 5B>shippu combos, so shippu is probably faster. 4C start up may be slower. I have no idea what this move is used for other than combo atm. Not a fan of the change. 6A counter can combo into gurren. 6A invincibility isn't great, about on par with most AA in the game. So you do not have CT 6A back.
mAc Chaos Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 The damage on Shippu is gonna be even less, so I'm not sure if it'll even be worth the 4+ stars.
zreb Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 (edited) The note said followups did less damage in regards to Shippu. I assumed that meant anything that came after it (but when does that ever happen...?) Could be wrong though? :I I already am not a fan of how 4C feels, so it being potentially even slower is very blah. Other than that I like the changes so far! I like the idea of throws having more presence midscreen with comboability. Edited August 26, 2011 by zreb
mAc Chaos Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 Yeah, the followups is what make it worth it half the time. I do it all the time. Outside of using it as an ender, anyway. If 4C is any slower it's going to be as slow as 5C...
psycofang2 Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 last 2 posts made me lol. now in all seriusness i have a question, ive been grinding the 2D>late iad>jA>jB>etc for the longest and can barely get it to work. an vids on that? ive been ib 2ding alot lately so ill need all the mag i can squish out of it. also the renka(1)>kishuu>2C>hotaru combo i cant even begin to iad off the hotaru. suggestions?
ryokoalways Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 Yes, I posted that awhile back. I'd suggest just do 2D>jA>jA though. Much more reliable and universal.
IndigoNovember Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 6C(fatal)>4C(full)>5C>renka(1)>kishuu>6C>2 loop into knockdown 3C for 7267. Pretty impressive for 3 magatamas. Wait, what? I thought 6c had 10% repeat proration (or whatever it was that made repeating 6c in a combo, kill the combo's damage)? Kishuu - Travel distance slightly increased, now projectile and body invulnerable after a certain number of frames Err, does body invulnerable mean completely invulnerable and not just upper body invulnerable? If so, wow, just got a really funny way of moving across the screen without worrying too much. Other changes are cool. I now have even less reason to use 4c ε=(-ω-｀) .
BladeOfJustice7 Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Err, does body invulnerable mean completely invulnerable and not just upper body invulnerable? Yes, fully invincible like a traditional dp, except you're moving forward. I don't think full invincibility will stick though, more like simply projectile invincibilty.
Spark Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 It's head and body invulnerable meaning you can only beat it with a move that has foot attribute. Like 2B and 2A.
NeoArtisan Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 Yes, fully invincible like a traditional dp, except you're moving forward. It doesnt rly sound like it, it says "body invulnerable after a certain number of frames" so i dont think it has any invincibility on start up.
mAc Chaos Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 That's how I always envisioned the move originally anyway.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted August 28, 2011 Posted August 28, 2011 It's head and body invulnerable meaning you can only beat it with a move that has foot attribute. Like 2B and 2A. Ohh, my bad, I guess for it to be like a traditional dp it would need to have "full body invincibility" then. Thanks for the correction. It doesnt rly sound like it, it says "body invulnerable after a certain number of frames" so i dont think it has any invincibility on start up. I never said functions exactly like a traditional dp, just had dp properties.
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