[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[SansProtocol]

Ohh, my bad, I guess for it to be like a traditional dp it would need to have "full body invincibility" then. Thanks for the correction.

Well, usually it would mean that that usually the start-up and active frames are fully invul.

Wait, what? I thought 6c had 10% repeat proration (or whatever it was that made repeating 6c in a combo, kill the combo's damage)?

Other changes are cool. I now have even less reason to use 4c ε=(-ω-｀) .

I'm also wondering about this. If they removed the repeat proration, that would be incredible.

And they need to fix how long you're in CH state for 4C. I cringe at how terrible whiffing with it is.

[IndigoNovember]

It's head and body invulnerable meaning you can only beat it with a move that has foot attribute. Like 2B and 2A.

But, isn't that how Kishuu is right now? Head and body invulnerable that is? I mean, I've ducked under Tager 5c which is head and body attribute, unless in that case it just counted the head attribute? Anyways, if it is currently like that, then why is it listed as a new change? Perhaps an error?

Edit: Nevermind, forgot about the "at least one" system for attribute invincibility. Nice to see the move become even more awesome regardless.

Edited August 29, 2011 by IndigoNovember

[mAc Chaos]

Nah, I get hit out of mid level stuff all the time. It goes more by the animation and what it can duck.

[ryokoalways]

I asked on the BBS. 6C same move proration still there. Just remove the second 6C from the posted combo. Dmg value is the same.

[mAc Chaos]

That's still off of 6C fatal. When is that ever going to happen.

[SansProtocol]

That's still off of 6C fatal. When is that ever going to happen.

Still shows you how painful 4C charged can be. You can get that off in better situations with different starters.

[WallJumpMan]

if kishuu is full body invincible does that mean i can go through moves like fucking noel?

what kind of world is this...

[psycofang2]

i dont think it has true full body invincibility (DP level) i think the invincibility kicks after a certain amount of frames in only vs projectiles while we still get the head/body invul vs physical attacks.

noel drives...idk, im unsure which is more dominant in her drives, projectile or physical. if projectile takes the highest priority in her drives then hakumen may be able to kishuu through as an entry. even then this still sounds skeptical.

[Jmyster]

Hmm, if the kishuu change sticks, we'll have a lot of things to experiment with. It could either be only really useful against certain characters, or could open a slew of options we did not have before (depending on when that invincibility starts/how long it lasts). Either way, it's a welcome addition--I'd love to score some surprise counter hits with that.

Of course, I'm still wondering if the new 6A will be a viable anti-air. It's still very different from the CT 6A.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Jmyster

[BladeOfJustice7]

In theory we might be able to go through noel's attacks since they have partial projectile properties as well. But this'll most likely apply to her drives and not her normals.

[IndigoNovember]

type attribute invincibility functions under an "at least one" system. For example, consider Tager's Sledge Hammer, which has a projectile autoguard (i.e. projectile invul) property, and Noel's 5C, which has both strike and projectile attributes: since the 5C has "at least" the projectile attribute assigned to it, Sledge Hammer can plow through 5C.

Therefore we should be able to go through any of Noel's attacks that are or have projectile attribute.

[SansProtocol]

Therefore we should be able to go through any of Noel's attacks that are or have projectile attribute.

It's why Ragna's Carnage Scissors will dash through her attacks and Counter it despite being non-projectile invul. It's probably going to be 3/4F~ projectile invulnerable as that's when the dash happens. Honestly, I think the increased distance and head/body invincibility would be the things to focus on than it being the other quality.

[Zeron_X25]

How viable is it for me to turtle the match until I get 8 stars to land a Mugen combo?

[mAc Chaos]

You won't kill them with it.

Well I guess they'll be somewhat damaged by then, so you might.

But why wait.

[Zeron_X25]

You won't kill them with it.

Well I guess they'll be somewhat damaged by then, so you might.

But why wait.

I find it to be easier to damage them little by little with turtling and land a Mugen combo. It just feels like Mugen is underused so I try to use it in most of my matches. Same with Blood Kain but Blood Kain obviously much easier to combo in different situations and it only costs you 50. So I was wondering if Hakumen's defensive playstyle was suited for such a game plan.

[mAc Chaos]

He no longer does enough damage to be able to afford to just chill out and deal damage when he wants to. You have to take every chance you can get.

[zreb]

Mugen is pretty susceptible to getting burst out of and the combos for it are significantly less burst-safe than the rest of Haku's combos. If they burst out of your combo, more than likely you aren't going to be be getting any damage off it between its rapid meter drain and it being fairly easy to play run-away while Haku has it up.

It can be nifty when the stars align (hyuk hyuk) and you can combo into it or get oki in the corner and they have no bursts, but it's not worth going out of your way over in higher level play.

Edited August 30, 2011 by zreb

[BladeOfJustice7]

How viable is it for me to turtle the match until I get 8 stars to land a Mugen combo?

lolno.

Mugen is ass for the most part, but it does have it's occasional uses for the simple fact that shippu always does 4k. I saw one jap player did 6d>mugen>6c>shippu and won the match. But other than that it's shit since it's even harder to 100% this time around.

[IndigoNovember]

Honestly, I think the increased distance and head/body invincibility would be the things to focus on than it being the other quality.

Very true, maybe we can start using it to do weird stuff like advance in blockstrings where we know the opponent has to do a high/mid attack (probably not if the attribute invincibility takes some time to start up) or cross under bad jump-ins (I think we can do the second part right now, but I haven't tested it).

Mugen is ass for the most part, but it does have it's occasional uses for the simple fact that shippu always does 4k. I saw one jap player did 6d>mugen>6c>shippu and won the match. But other than that it's shit since it's even harder to 100% this time around.

He got 6c in? Wow, I didn't think that was possible... Hmm, corner only for (5610), good enough. The guaranteed 4k is pretty decent, 6d -> Mugen -> Shippu (5400) is a good burst safe ender if you for some reason have 8 magatama and your opponent has less than 5400 life. Precondition #1 (having 8 magatama on hand) should never happen though...

But yeah, I only do it in casuals cause it doesn't work anywhere else. Oh the things that you can invincibility frame through with the startup of Mugen (not much). Best experience I had with Mugen was when I did it to get through my friend's 720, for whatever reason he decided not to hold it down, so... yeah ┐('～`；)┌ .

How viable is it for me to turtle the match until I get 8 stars to land a Mugen combo?

If you want to use up all 8 magatama at once, it's probably more viable to just throw out an 8 magatama corner combo, seeing as how without a good starter (read fatal lv3 6c), a Mugen combo will do less damage. Throw -> 6c -> Mugen -> stuff is decent (~8.1k) but it still ends up doing less damage than an 8 magatama combo. Really though, you shouldn't be trying to use Mugen, it's rarely used for a reason.

[Jmyster]

So apparently, according to an update to the loketest thread, 6B can no longer break primers.

...as if that move needed to get even less useful. I can't complain with all the buffs, but I don't understand why they would attack 6B.

[mAc Chaos]

Well there goes my double rapid cancel 6B guard break plan.

[Jmyster]

I know, right? I just lost another impractical way to troll my friend!

[IndigoNovember]

I'm almost disgusted with myself for even finding the nerf. /sarcasm

I know, right? I just lost another impractical way to troll my friend!

Same here, I am sad (*´Д`) .

[Arcknight]

Well there goes my double rapid cancel 6B guard break plan.

Hey cheer up Mac. You can still do 6C>RC>6C>RC>6C. Why waste meter for Mugen?

Anyone else think fully charged hits should break more primers? It seems like a hit with that much power should have more of an impact. I can see why it doesn't do that. I try and throw some logic into the mess sometimes. It never works....

Edited August 30, 2011 by Arcknight

[zreb]

Hopefully they've got some other change planned for 6B if they're making it not take primers. It's already -frames, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to have a non-comboable overhead that is -frames and does not break primers.

He got 6c in? Wow, I didn't think that was possible...

I've seen 6d Mugen Zantetsu Shippu, but not 6C.