[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[CupofT]

Any grip that doesn't give you carpal tunnel is a good grip

[BladeOfJustice7]

It seems like agito has projectile properties.

I've seen a Hakumen do jc to another Hakumen doing agito, and fumajin appeared in a video on nico nico. Coupled with this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3yTQWfrnD1c#t=433s

[mAc Chaos]

agito

a projectile

well at least tager has something to look forward to now

[BladeOfJustice7]

I would say it has projectile destroying properties, but if H-man can get a fumajin off of it, then it must have projectile properties.

if it really does have projectile properties:

[Ctrlaltwtf]

My friends back home said like "the pro's says it's best to hold the stick upside down, but no one does it, hold it like it feels natural"

Result: http://imgur.com/YBf6Y

That's pretty much exactly what I do.

[shtkn]

you sure it's not just hte projectile disappearing after a set distance?

[mAc Chaos]

I would say it has projectile destroying properties, but if H-man can get a fumajin off of it, then it must have projectile properties.

if it really does have projectile properties:

Well, that might make an easier way to deal with Agito mix ups if you can get the right range...

Although if it really is a projectile... it's just his sword. Why aren't his other attacks projectiles then.

Edited December 12, 2012 by mAc Chaos

[Ctrlaltwtf]

Well, that might make an easier way to deal with Agito mix ups if you can get the right range...

Although if it really is a projectile... it's just his sword. Why aren't his other attacks projectiles then.

Oh my god, I can see it now:

Haku vs Haku mirror.

Haku 1 jumps forward, Agito.

Haku 2 uses Yukikaze, doesn't freeze Haku 1.

Haku 1 air dashes safely over Yukikaze, then uses Agito again on Haku 2's head.

I can dream.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Ctrlaltwtf

[mAc Chaos]

Blade, do you remember where that video of the Haku cutting the other Haku's agito was?

[Isuna]

Agito is a projectile? o.o

[BladeOfJustice7]

you sure it's not just hte projectile disappearing after a set distance?

That projectile travels full screen.

Well, that might make an easier way to deal with Agito mix ups if you can get the right range...

Although if it really is a projectile... it's just his sword. Why aren't his other attacks projectiles then.

What? Agito is a kick attack unless I'm misunderstanding something.

Blade, do you remember where that video of the Haku cutting the other Haku's agito was?

Yea, it's on nico nico.

Agito is a projectile? o.o

From what it looks like, or at least a hybrid projectile like Ouroboros/Noel's normals.

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19561752

Right at the beginning. You see that jc hit Hakumen and it does 2 hits, also you see fumajin quickly appear after the jc hits.

[mAc Chaos]

Oh right. For some reason I thought he slashed with his sword like Tsubaki. But either way it's not like Renka or Hotaru are projectiles.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Exactly why I came to this conclusion. Two videos showing projectile properties of Agito.

[SansProtocol]

It probably has both properties. Usually happens with long-reaching things using the person's weapon or other physically attached attack. Sorta of like Hazama's chains, which cause the physical hitstop of Yukikaze to happen as well as Akumetsu to trigger. Interesting.

[Isuna]

Agito is located at A, so isn't he using his elbow? o.o

Hakumen astraled me today, I guess that's what I get for turning my back on him

[BladeOfJustice7]

Uragiru....

[itsme]

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19561752

Right at the beginning. You see that jc hit Hakumen and it does 2 hits, also you see fumajin quickly appear after the jc hits.

Oh man, now I definitely want to play Haku mirrors and cannot wait for CP after watching that video. And yeah, Agito probably does have a projectile attribute since you can make voids out of it. Some neat stuff that was in the jbbs that the video can show examples of:

-Yukikaze is either a bit faster or it is still the same speed, it's just that the hitstop when catching the projectile that is shortened so it looks like Hakumen attacks faster when he catches projectiles with his Yukikaze now.

-His OD's increased meter build still goes on during time freeze animations while his OD bar freezes, meaning you make a lot of meter during long time freeze animations. As seen in the video, the Haku who did their OD first had a slight amount more meter gained by the time both player's OD finished. There was a post in the jbbs that said that they OD'd vs. a CPU Bang and the second they finished Hakumen's OD, the CPU did their OD too (FRKZ). Because of the long time freeze, he made 8 mags with his OD bar in tact by the time the time freeze lifted.

One note from the jbbs that was pretty interesting but wasn't shown in the video was that Shippu seems to have different level of damage now, and depending on how much untechable time/hit stun the opponent has, charging it for a few frames helps boost its damage like the 6C corner combos, considering the 2nd level of charge is apparently pretty short. As an example, something like 5C > Shippu level 1 would do 4154 damage, while a 5C > Shippu level 2 would do 4706 damage.

Also, I was making a janky damage calculator on excel to test out and update some of the damage and prorations of Hakumen's CP data. With some information courtesy of the jbbs. It would be great if other people have anything else to contribute to this list. I have a (?) on stuff that I'm not sure.

Move Damage/P1/P2

5A 350/90/77

5B 590/100/89

5C 1210/100/92

2A 300/100/77

2B 450/90/89

2C 1150/90/92

6A 620/80/89

6B 590x2/90/92

6C(lv1) 1500/100/94 *FC possible

6C(lv2) 1700/100/94 *^^

6C(max) 2000/100/94 *forced FC on hit

4C 700/100/89

4C(max) 1600/100/94

3C 1200/90/92

jA 320/90/77

jB 590/90/89

jC 1300/90/92

j2A 780/90/70

j2C 1100/90/92

5D 1800/100/60 *100% minimum

2D 1800/100/60 *^^

6D 1400/100/80 *^^

jD 2000/100/45 *^^

F. Throw 1400/100/60

B. Throw 1400/100/60

A. Throw 1400/100/60

CT 1000/80/100 *ignores combo rate, cannot be performed during Mugen

Guren 560/100/92

Enma 860/100/72

D. Enma 860/100/82 *FC possible

Renka 750x2/90/92,60

Zantetsu 2100,750/90/94,62 *first hit ignores combo rate, not during Mugen

Agito 800/70/90

Hotaru 1200/90/82

Tsubaki 2800/90/92 *ignores combo rate, not during Mugen

Shippu(lv1) 3200/100/60 *ignore combo rate, also during Mugen, 35% minimum (1120 dmg)

Shippu(lv2) 3800/100/60 *^^

Shippu(lv3) 4400/100/60 *^^

Shippu(max) 5000/100/60 *^^

Shippu(wave) 2500/100/80 *20% minimum (500 dmg)

OD Shippu *follows the same damages and ignores the combo rate just like normal Shippu(?)

OD Shippu(wave) 3000/100/80 *20% minimum (600 dmg)

Yukikaze 3800/100/30 *100% minimum

OD Yukikaze 4078/100/30 *^^

Void 180(?)/85/89

[dioxideUniversa]

(FRKZ)

8 mags

fuck i want it

EDIT: man what @ the new

Edited December 13, 2012 by dioxideUniversa

[BladeOfJustice7]

Interesting use of counters here: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm19569118

I think 5d's start up is less than 5 frames now, maybe 2 or 3 now. But definitely not instant like the old 6d.

[itsme]

It still looks same to me.

Also, the part where he 5D'd between 2D > 5C might make it look faster, but it's probably because he caught the 5C at the very first frame of his 5D; considering Jin was just at +1 and tried to use a 10f start up move, probably expecting Hakumen to do 2D rather than 5D.

Edited December 13, 2012 by itsme

[Moy_X7]

There's no guarantee that Jin's 2D is still barely +1 on block. I haven't seen many people trying to disrespect it thus far and I'm assuming that it received a bit more frame advantage since the Guard Primers system is gone and his 2D no longer breaks Primers. It had always been +5 before CSE and while I don't expect it to be +5 any more, it should at least be more than +1 but not more than +5.

Then again, my theory could be completely wrong and it might still just be +1. Kinda unfair since the only reason it was barely +1 in CSE was because it broke Primers lol.

[itsme]

True and I probably am wrong assuming that it still uses the CSE data, but it would still be even at +5 which would make it exactly a frame 1 catch for Hakumen's 5D.

[Isuna]

If Agito and Tsubaki got minimum damage, my guess is that Agito has 20%, and Tsubaki 15% (maybe 20%).

That would give Agito 160, and Tsubaki either 420 (or 560).

6D attack whiffs on Tager 5C at "max" range.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Isuna you still haven't looked through the Hakumen ranking system. Could you please do so by saturday?

dioxide, keep adding matches to the video thread. I'll be updating the thread, and with matches I've seen, once I'm finished my exams saturday.

Thanks everyone

[Isuna]

I did look at what itsme had already translated, you want me to go through all of it?

It's not like I'm busy tomorrow so I could do it.