Spark Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 So it looks like Counter > enma > j.2C = ~1401 DMG vs normal enma > j.ec = ~1337 DMG. So either it has slightly better prorate or it just does more damage on it's initial hit.
itsme Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 It's estimated to have a P2 of 82 compared to the normal Enma's 72 so yeah he former is right. AFAIK the P1 for both Enma's are 100.
mAc Chaos Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 What's the point of 6D having a high P1 if the actual combo uses Enma lol I thought for a moment that the high P1 of 6D would at least mean there'd be a payoff to using it.
itsme Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 At least it's better than having a crappy P1 though the sub-par P2 of our drives kind of kills our combos anyways. Also, reposted the move data in the final changes thread if anyone wants to theory combo and such. I gathered the info from the loketest, jbbs and calculated some of the data myself through match videos, it's not official or cracked info so take it as some possible numbers to fiddle with.
psycofang2 Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 What's the point of 6D having a high P1 if the actual combo uses Enma lol I thought for a moment that the high P1 of 6D would at least mean there'd be a payoff to using it. i think its because 6D is the only drive that can be comboed off of without the need of enma.
mAc Chaos Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 On another note, I noticed I used to be able to bait so many more bursts by doing Renka (1) > Kishuu > 2C > combo in the corner rather than Kishuu 6C 6A 2C. Whenever I do 6C people always burst out easily, so even though it does more damage I think I'm going to go back to the 6C-less version. Thoughts. I mean, they basically get out of the 6C version for free every time if they want to so it just wastes stars and you do less damage even though the combo is stronger.
itsme Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 If I wanted a some what burst safe but still damaging corner combo, I usually go for Starter>/Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C> j2A> j2C> 6A> *5C > 2C* > loop*n > ender. I sometimes replace the *5C > 2C* with 6C and I gain like 100 more damage; the later added 6C can make the opponent reluctant on bursting there or not and you get more chances to burst bait before the 6C too compared to going straight into 6C. There is also always the Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > sj back j2A > ad > jB >/j2A > j2C > 2C > loop*n > ender for a dirty burst bait combo too, though I think this route docks off more than 500 damage and it's actually hard to stabilize depending on the distances iirc. Honestly, in CSE I've always went for the 6C route for maximum damage unless if I absolutely needed to be careful for a burst, I think if you want to always play it safe you should stick to the 2C route since the damage difference really is pretty negligible although I don't know about the meter gain difference. And if you have 4 mags to waste, you could always RC the 6C since it's pretty easy to react to the burst after you land your 6C, I've even trolled people with 6C > Yukikaze as a burst bait before. 6C > burst bait Shippu is dirty as hell too because of that 4k punish.
Skeletal Minion Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) I think going for less optimal combos that are "burst safe" is a waste IMO. If they don't burst, you're just cheating yourself. If they do, you can take satisfaction in that you forced them to waste their burst (or OD, making their offense far less threatening), meaning the next time you touch them, you get to eat. Best thing to do IMO is the normal optimal combo while option selecting potential bursts when possible. Also, does anyone know if the changes to defensive bursts have made it possible to counter bursts with any Zanshin other than 2D? Having a unique way to punish bursts was one of my favorite aspects of Hakumen in past BBs and I'd love to see it come back. Edited January 30, 2013 by Skeletal Minion
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 Also, does anyone know if the changes to defensive bursts have made it possible to counter bursts with any Zanshin other than 2D? Having a unique way to punish bursts was one of my favorite aspects of Hakumen in past BBs and I'd love to see it come back. Well I wouldn't be surprised if Zanshin just makes you ignore the Burst, leaving you free to hit them with a 5C starter > GG. Zanshin still makes you invulnerable unless my whole life is a lie. On another note, I noticed I used to be able to bait so many more bursts by doing Renka (1) > Kishuu > 2C > combo in the corner rather than Kishuu 6C 6A 2C Asshole lol my favorite times were when you'd make a damn off-screen Fumajin on my Burst...
mAc Chaos Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 6C > Shippu oh my LAWD I need to try that. I had a lot of success just outright murdering people with those burst baits though Skeletal. Like I'd get the damage from the normal combo and then a whole second combo right on top of it. So they waste the burst anyway. Asshole lol my favorite times were when you'd make a damn off-screen Fumajin on my Burst... lol people go nuts whenever that happens I love it.
Isuna Posted January 30, 2013 Posted January 30, 2013 It was weird when I saw enma, after the kishuu had started to go through bursts, enma kinda seems to have invincibility against projectiles. Is there a reason why kishuu seems to have an easier time going through projectiles this time around? At least for me that is. Maybe they made the hurtbox even smaller? Well I wouldn't be surprised if Zanshin just makes you ignore the Burst, leaving you free to hit them with a 5C starter > GG. Zanshin still makes you invulnerable unless my whole life is a lie. I think he is talking about the fact the 2D is the only counter which is slow enough to grab the opponent after the burst. If you use 5D, 6D or JD they will still be invincible when the grab comes, while the grab of 2D being a couple of F slower will succesfully catch them.
mAc Chaos Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 What combo variations do you guys use for midscreen. I see Skeletal do different ones sometimes. I'm trying 5C > Renka (1) > Kishuu > 2C > j.B > j.2A > IAD j.B > j.A > 5C > Gurren > IAD j.B > j.A > 2C > j.B > j.2A > IAD j.2A > j.C and that works corner to corner. I also see 5C > 623AA > j.2C > 5C > 5C (or is it 2C?) > stuff sometimes.
Wander Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) I use 5C > Renka (1) > Kishuu > 2C > j.B > j.2A > IAD j.B > j.A > 5C > 2C > Gurren > hop 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD j.2A > j.C and if goes into corner you can add 5C, etc. And a easier variation in which after the 5C i do Kishuu > 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD j.2A > j.C also, i only do the first combo if its 5C starter or a Renka starter, im not sure it works with other starters. Edited January 31, 2013 by Wander
BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Is anyone down to netplay when I get home around 11 or so? Particularly mAc/ctrl.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Is anyone down to netplay when I get home around 11 or so? Particularly mAc/ctrl. 11 what timezone? I'll be available all night.
itsme Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 Also, does anyone know if the changes to defensive bursts have made it possible to counter bursts with any Zanshin other than 2D? Having a unique way to punish bursts was one of my favorite aspects of Hakumen in past BBs and I'd love to see it come back. All drives except for jD (for some odd reason) can catch bursts now because defensive bursts have a way faster start up and less i-frames. Also, for midscreen Renka combos, I usually go for the standard combo if online, if offline I go for starter > Renka(1) > Kishuu > 2C > jB > j2A> ad jB > jA > 5C> Kishuu > 2C > jb > j2A > ad j2A > jC~ender. I haven't really tried to change it up mach nor have I took my time to look for the most optimum damage for it mostly because the one I give can pretty much works with any starter, I guess I should work on optimizing my damage more if Guren works in there. If I have 2 stars, I go for the usual Enma confirm or if I do go into Renka, I do something like Renka(2) > *IAD j2C > 5A* > jB > j2A > ad j2A > jC~ender, for *~* I sometimes replace it with step 2C instead but this is mostly because I have never took time optimizing these combos and went more for stuff I can do consistently and still get the corner carry down. I honestly think I experimented more with one mag midscreen combos but they're really just variations using the jB > jA > 5C/2C stuff.
dioxideUniversa Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 (edited) 11 what timezone? I'll be available all night. this i'll make it a point to get on knowing a time for combos: renka(1) > kishuu, 66, 2c > gurren > kishuu, 5c > kishuu, 2c > j.B > j.2a, AD j.B > j.A, 5c > kishuu, 2c > j.B > j.2a, AD j.2a, j.C something i find myself wanting to do often that chin did occasionally but i never have that much meter or good enough hit confirms lol other than that i just go for itsme's combo, though i should mess with the one that uses gurren and IAD instead of kishuu after the 5c. Edited January 31, 2013 by dioxideUniversa
BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 11 what timezone? I'll be available all night. East coast time zone bro. I believe you're east coast no?
Ctrlaltwtf Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 East coast time zone bro. I believe you're east coast no? Negatory, UT is 1 hour ahead of West Coast. Mountain Standard Time. mAc and I don't live near each other lol. our conn is fine though.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 One day I will meet mAc in person, and when I do I will hand him a dirty bag filled with rotting filth. To represent his scumminess.
mAc Chaos Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 You were killing me with those messages. "i screamed at the TV" loooool I pretty much do that every time I get hit by Mu 2C. :P
Nemesis Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 One day I will meet mAc in person, and when I do I will hand him a dirty bag filled with rotting filth. To represent his scumminess. Legit
SansProtocol Posted January 31, 2013 Posted January 31, 2013 One day I will meet mAc in person, and when I do I will hand him a dirty bag filled with rotting filth. To represent his scumminess. I fucking hate MS Paint.
mAc Chaos Posted February 1, 2013 Posted February 1, 2013 lol amazing the salt is the best part of the game its better than the actual game itself
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