[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[dioxideUniversa]

isn't it emergency techable though? i know you can do j.2c off certain heights on counter hit but it would bluebeat otherwise.

[psycofang2]

he ment off counter hit agito.

ch agito ground bounces, so j2C 2C is possible but the timing is evil.

[mAc Chaos]

There really needs to be a better way to end corner combos in CP. Half the combos end with j.C with wallstick in the corner, but they tech instantly.

[psycofang2]

not really seeing one minus 1 of three things:

gimp your combo to allow you to create oki.

hit them with agito to stay in some, minor, control.

hit them with tsubaki for a little more control at a higher cost.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

How quickly would they tech an Agito at the end? Although they'd still bounce so that's hardly reliable.

[itsme]

If they're holding to tech I think it's pretty much emergency tech fast and I think it looks like Haku will reach them in time to be in the + seeing how I barely see anyone trying to mash out after an Agito ender.

Also, I think most corner enders ends with jC > Agito though it has to be really close to the corner and it can get height dependent. People ending it with jC are probably trying to save mags and try to force the pressure on the opponent without the knockdown. I've also seen people go for j2C enders as well since it seems to be easier to force the pressure on the opponent better than the jC ender though it does less damage and it's still not as strong as getting the knockdown from Agito.

[mAc Chaos]

What do you guys make of the Makoto matchup in EX and in general? Assuming you have played Makoto.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

From my experience, I'd say Haku-men's favor slightly.

[psycofang2]

5.5-4.5 if i were to really get sticky.

otherwise upon average skill levels 6-4.

hakumen has range, damage, and hp to boot, and a counter drive to stop makotos bs.

makoto is only dangerous once shes in. and thats kindof.

[Skeletal Minion]

I'd also say 6-4. She's not free, but I can't think of a single situation that is unmanageable for Hakumen. Her rushdown isn't bad, but it's certainly flimsy at times, and it's the best thing she has--the matchup with her is basically like fighting a mediocre version of Ragna, since that's what she is.

[mAc Chaos]

6-4 feels a little too lopsided to me. I definitely wouldn't say 5-5 since Haku got buffed and she got nerfed this time around, but maybe more around 5.5-4.5. Maybe I am still having nightmares from CS1 and 2.

I feel like she's a combination of Noel and Bang. She is fast and can get in like Noel, and has Bang type pressure. And I never thought Noel or Makoto had to struggle to get in. Play smart, but not struggle.

[toanenadiz]

Maybe you are just free to Makoto

[mAc Chaos]

Squirrels 2 strong

I actually don't have that much trouble against her anymore, but the players that used to body me like Omni and LK barely play anymore, so. :P Hard to judge.

I just remember trying to keep them out. 4C and j.C can get 3C'd by her, or she can call out the 4C with an IAD j.B / j.C, and if you try to just wait and anti air her she can just do a normal jump and bait it, or jump in and barrier, and now she is in. Never seemed that super hard to me. It was always more a matter of time of when she got in and then doing damage control.

Edited February 27, 2013 by mAc Chaos

[Goldchampion200]

Squirrels 2 strong

I actually don't have that much trouble against her anymore, but the players that used to body me like Omni and LK barely play so. :P Hard to judge.

I just remember trying to keep them out. 4C and j.C can get 3C'd by her, or she can call out the 4C with an IAD j.B / j.C, and if you try to just wait and anti air her she can just do a normal jump and bait it, or jump in and barrier, and now she is in. Never seemed that super hard to me. It was always more a matter of time of when she got in and then doing damage control.

Time to learn more shenanigans or get a teacher.......ohhh wait im the only mak left on live D:

To not make a completely useless Post from my experiences id say Mak vs Hakmen is 5.5-4.5 in hakmens favor

Edited February 27, 2013 by Goldchampion200

[Tecta1Eastside]

Time to learn more shenanigans or get a teacher.......ohhh wait im the only mak left on live D:

You forgot my makoto. I'm hurt

[Goldchampion200]

You forgot my makoto. I'm hurt

i didnt forget im just counting ppl who main Mak and play BB on a regular Basis if i were to count everyone i know who plays to some degree Mak the list would go upto a whopping 5.

1.Me(Main)

2.Deadliest (sub)

3.Tectal(sub)

4.Blubba(Main)

5.Buster leon( i think Main havent seen him in awhile)

That should be it unless im forgetting somebody

EDIT: on live of course :P

[Tecta1Eastside]

I simply mash Hakumen's j.C and j.2A like I do on P4U with Labrys and kill Makoto.

The MU is like 6-4 Hackmen wins.

Its hard for her to get in and when she does its not scary like it was back in the day

Hakumen retarded good in Extend. Horse DMG>Squirrel DMG

[Errol]

This is all because Mac was telling me that Makoto has a strong neutral against Hakumen, then it turned out that he was mostly going off playing Omni in CS2, and then it turned to a discussion over whether the matchup is really any different from CS2. Mac thinks not much different, I think it is significantly different (despite not playing Makoto in CS2 and just picking her up a month or so ago)

[toanenadiz]

I thought it would be pretty much the same, but harder for Makoto.

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah. I don't think most of his matchups have changed really that much.

[OmniSScythe]

And you would be right, outside of universal effect her changes (lower dash start up, more recover on 5B, parry, asteroid vision routes and DAMAGE) had on matches it plays out the same.

Would had called it 6:4 MA in CS1, even in CS2 and 5.5:4.5 in HA favor in EX.

[toanenadiz]

Well, I guess it depends on what you consider the "match-up" being and what it entails when you discuss it.

[Errol]

Pretty much use the same shit but risk reward is against you instead of in your favor I guess. Still seems like it'd be a bit different because you wouldn't want to use her unique tools as much now (Parry, J2C, 3C, asteroid) but the bread and butter is the same (normal moves, footsies).

But I guess I still thought that the neutral wasn't so much in Makoto's favor as it was just the damage, risk reward.

[mAc Chaos]

In CS1 and 2? Or Extend.

[Errol]

In CS2. though if I understand correctly, her special tools were even stronger in CS1, but her normal moves were worse. Not sure about damage, I know there were crazy damage combos but don't know how it compared to CS2 in terms of practicality or what not.