[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[psycofang2]

. Similarly, Lambda's j214D~C has her continue the animation for TK crescent just without the actual projectile fully coming out.

thats retarded.

i want that too.

Also Kyakuu is like the new tenchi of CP, I swear everytime I watch him on a-cho there's also new Kishin/OD combo applications he comes up with or simply insane combos without OD. And Sakamoto and Chin need to run an ft10 set in CP -__-

you have nay links to kyakuu? i cant seem to find any lol.

[BladeOfJustice7]

you have nay links to kyakuu? i cant seem to find any lol.

Kyakuu @ 1:07:50

Though the whole first hour is just 6 hero matches, very good play apart from the fact that none of them seem terribly unfond of blocking on wake up or blocking period.

[dioxideUniversa]

speaking of feints, has anyone ever made "good" use of this gimmick?

[ATTACH]2356[/ATTACH]

(in case it's not apparent, the (2) parts are not actually coming out)

[itsme]

I think most opponents would already be blocking or are looking for the kishuu to mash a low out of if some Haku feinted their second hits with a kishuu but I can see it working for general mix up purposes.

Also, it's nice to hear A-92 has been playing CP this whole time since I thought he dropped the game or something after not seeing him at all for CP. Wouldn't have thought he was the one going by Konnichiwa Gackt desu.

[Spark]

Yeah was wondering where he went.

[mAc Chaos]

I don't get it, it just looks like he did Kishuu and that's it. How is that a feint?

[itsme]

It's not really a feint hence the gimmick but basically you cancel the second part of Zantetsu and Renka with Kishuu right before the second hit lands so that the opponent stays blocking on visual cue and you do whatever from the Kishuu like Zantetsu (1) > Zantetsu (2) cancel Kishuu > TK Tsubaki for a feint low high mix up or Renka (1) > Renka (2) cancel [Kishuu > grab/Zantetsu/Renka) for a green throw or a non-mid high low mix up.

[BladeOfJustice7]

snip

I know of this but never done it because everytime I intend to go for it, people get hit by the first Zantetsu slash anyways, making me dashing in and looking like a fool.

It requires a lot of anticipation and foresight to make proper use of it, but I still think it's a strong tool.

Also, it's nice to hear A-92 has been playing CP this whole time since I thought he dropped the game or something after not seeing him at all for CP. Wouldn't have thought he was the one going by Konnichiwa Gackt desu.

I was wondering about him too, thanks for the player id update on him itsme. Glad to see there's another Gackt fan among Hakumen players xD

Did Zantetsu get a start up buff, because a lot more people are getting hit by as opposed to older versions of the game, and including the fact that people are aware about how dangerous Zantetsu is in this version of the game.

[itsme]

No concrete evidence but from most frame calculations for CP, it is leaning towards Zantetsu's start up not being changed at all. It's probably more of the fact that more Haku's are using the special in general so it seems more people are falling for it.

[toanenadiz]

Isn't canceling stuff into Kishuu normal? And isn't Renka(1) > Kishuu a standard way Hakumen players hitconfirm off of Renka(1)? I must play against too many gimmicky Hakumen cause I see them cancel Zantetsu(1) and Renka(1) into Kishuu all of the time.

[itsme]

No, the point dioxide was trying to make was that you cancel the second attack of Zantetsu and Renka just before the active frames comes out so the opponent who is blocking on the visual cue stays under the impression that the Hakumen is just going to commit to the second move. The difference between this and what every Hakumen does canceling into Kishuu for hit confirming/continuing pressure/mix ups is that the former is more like a move whiffing/stagger mix up while the latter is more or so just the usual Hakumen mix up and pressure.

[WolfCrimson]

I think most opponents would already be blocking or are looking for the kishuu to mash a low out of if some Haku feinted their second hits with a kishuu but I can see it working for general mix up purposes.

Also, it's nice to hear A-92 has been playing CP this whole time since I thought he dropped the game or something after not seeing him at all for CP. Wouldn't have thought he was the one going by Konnichiwa Gackt desu.

Aren't "Konnichiwa Gackt Desu" and "Konbanwa Gackt Desu" both Film aka Firumu?

[itsme]

Nah, even on the dan ranking list on the video page, Konbanwa Gackt is the only tag that's labeled as Film. In one of the recent arc revo qualifiers it was made clear that A-92 was Konnichiwa Gackt all this time.

[WolfCrimson]

That sneaky bastard

[Skeletal Minion]

I'd like to add that I think Zantetsu seems to be landing more is possibly an effect of the general speed increase. Even if it's startup hasn't changed, the overall pacing is faster, which makes people more "nervous" under pressure and prone to making more blocking errors.

[toanenadiz]

No, the point dioxide was trying to make was that you cancel the second attack of Zantetsu and Renka just before the active frames comes out so the opponent who is blocking on the visual cue stays under the impression that the Hakumen is just going to commit to the second move. The difference between this and what every Hakumen does canceling into Kishuu for hit confirming/continuing pressure/mix ups is that the former is more like a move whiffing/stagger mix up while the latter is more or so just the usual Hakumen mix up and pressure.

I know what you are referring to and I've seen Hakumen wait until right before Renka's second hit to make me afraid of just mashing out of Renka(1) > Kishuu. I thought that was normal. So if Hakumen delays the Kishuu cancel from Renka, is he unable to combo from it?

[Saeor12]

You can cancel Renka and Zantetsu into Kishuu as soon as the first hit, it doesn't make a difference if you delay or not as far as comboing goes. If that's that your referring to...

[itsme]

I know what you are referring to and I've seen Hakumen wait until right before Renka's second hit to make me afraid of just mashing out of Renka(1) > Kishuu. I thought that was normal. So if Hakumen delays the Kishuu cancel from Renka, is he unable to combo from it?

Renka (1)'s untechable time is pretty retarded so Hakumen can delay cancel into Kishuu anytime before the second hit's active frames comes out and still combo off of it perfectly though stuff like 6C or step whatever probably won't work since you have to do those in rapid succession after Renka (1) hits.

But applying the delayed Kishuu in block string, mix up and pressure is completely different from applying it in combo, not sure if I gave you the answer you were looking for. If you mean if a Haku was going to just do a delayed Kishuu block string, but got the Renka (1) to hit anyways, then yes the above mentioned pretty much shows he can combo easily into a 2C combo route easily even after delaying the Kishuu compared to its usual (normal) timing.

[mAc Chaos]

You'd have to just be auto piloting for that though.

If you land Renka (1) whether or not you wanted to do a late cancel, you should be able to tell you landed a hit and go into the combo.

Doing the cancel mixup is only if they blocked the first hit.

[dioxideUniversa]

video of thing i was talking about:

the point is not necessarily to just trick them with a late cancel, but to also send the visual cue that the 2nd attack is happening when it's not. primarily this is useful for doing unexpected green throws, but it obviously requires a respectful opponent and not one that's just gonna mash out of the dash anyway. if they are thinking the 2nd attack is happening and get confused even for a split second, there's not a lot of time to figure out what to do next and it's possible it could fluster an unsuspecting opponent

i sometimes use 623aa > jump cancel > 623a cancel the jump startup since enma > kishuu is not something you can do normally for a similar trick. of course the execution on both of these is a bit taxing (the renka/zantetsu trick in particular is pretty tight)

I know of this but never done it because everytime I intend to go for it, people get hit by the first Zantetsu slash anyways, making me dashing in and looking like a fool.

It requires a lot of anticipation and foresight to make proper use of it, but I still think it's a strong tool.

in CP, you'll be looking like a zantetsu(1) combo hero instead!

i have issues with basic pressure working on local strongguys with good defense/reaction times, so pretty much any time you think they aren't jabbing out your kishuus it can be useful if other mixups aren't working.

CP console needs to be released in japan. i want to import so i can make combo videos.

Edited March 29, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[BladeOfJustice7]

Does anyone have any matches of a92 aka konnichiwa gackt desu? I love his use of kishuu.

Sansprotocol do you still have your avi of Hakumen's kishuu going through everything? I'd like to use it if that's alright with you.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Does anyone know if Takosu, who now goes by Hikaru, used to be a GG player? I found a Slayer who goes by the name of Hikaru, and we all know top players often change their gamer names over time.

And particularly strong GG players, like Chin and Goro, were all old school GG players.

[itsme]

iirc in the BBRevo pre-stream, Ishida (Dennou) was talking about one of the Tachikawa team being made up of new generation fighting game players (Takosu, Takeyama and Ryuusei) so I assume the Hikaru you're talking about and the current Takosu (Hikaru) are different people.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Thanks for clearing that up, and wow I can't believe Ryuusei and Takosu are new to the fighter genre, yet so strong. Never heard of Takeyama, I'll go check him out.

[itsme]

Takeyama is kind of okay compared to Ryuusei and Takosu, he played Noel in CSE and is now learning Makoto for CP. He's the guy who does most of the commentary for the Tachikawa videos though.