[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[Agito]

I've messed around with Hakumen the past few games but this is my first time actually taking him seriously. I wanted to know what should my general mindset be as a Hakumen player?

[BladeOfJustice7]

Patience, don't force situations with your opponent, instead look for openings and habits in your opponent and their character to makes use of to achieve victory. Don't mash counters, you have other tools to punish your opponent outside of his drive counters, and learn to block.

I'm certain other players can add more to this, but this is the general mindset as a Hakumen player.

[kirbster]

When I play Hakumen, my mindset is "try to be as fraudulent as possible".

[mAc Chaos]

I've messed around with Hakumen the past few games but this is my first time actually taking him seriously. I wanted to know what should my general mindset be as a Hakumen player?

Street Fighter.

[Raziul]

Litchi is broken. That is all.

[TheYukianesa-01]

Street Fighter.

...Well fuck, that explains why my Hakumen sucks competitively.

He doesn't have a Cannon Spike button

[Sophisticat]

Played more Haku tonight.

- Improved j.C is just gdlk. More dmg + huge blowback makes it a very effective air spacing tool now. Especially good against Tager.

- Gatling into 3c is sweet.

- OD is MAD FUN. It's like having slayer dmg on tap!

The offset to all this is he lost corner carry and relies a lot more on oki to get his dmg. I don't feel he's ever been designed as an oki character in mind, so I've got mixed feelings about this. Knockdown, stagger, 6B CH, and the j.C blowback are all nice to have. But he's lost some versatility and corner dmg potential. If it weren't for OD, I doubt he'd be anywhere above mid to upper-mid tier. As it is though, OD is really the wild card. It's the game-changer that allows a win on a dime.

Overall, I like him. He's not the efficient killing machine he was in EX, but I think he's got some flash and style to make up for that. Work that oki/burst dmg and you'll be ok as a CP Haku player.

[Raziul]

Played more Haku tonight.

- Improved j.C is just gdlk. More dmg + huge blowback makes it a very effective air spacing tool now. Especially good against Tager.

- Gatling into 3c is sweet.

- OD is MAD FUN. It's like having slayer dmg on tap!

The offset to all this is he lost corner carry and relies a lot more on oki to get his dmg. I don't feel he's ever been designed as an oki character in mind, so I've got mixed feelings about this. Knockdown, stagger, 6B CH, and the j.C blowback are all nice to have. But he's lost some versatility and corner dmg potential. If it weren't for OD, I doubt he'd be anywhere above mid to upper-mid tier. As it is though, OD is really the wild card. It's the game-changer that allows a win on a dime.

Overall, I like him. He's not the efficient killing machine he was in EX, but I think he's got some flash and style to make up for that. Work that oki/burst dmg and you'll be ok as a CP Haku player.

The new meter gain makes mix up play or oki a lot easier, since you're not waiting half a round anymore. No more guard primers is also great for Hakumen, as you can earn a lot of meter just surviving block strings too.

[ban1son]

Ok so i got my copy 2 day, and Im finding his bnb juggle quite difficult, I cant seem to get the super jump 2a after, for example kishu. renka, 2c which is messing up my j2c into 5a. Is the sj2a important or can it be a normal j2a? if it is vital is there any easy way to input this as Ive always struggled with this in previous games but in CP it seems that you need it more than ever. Also I noticed that dioxideUniversa mentioned that it has to be double jump 2c after the j2a, any help would be greatly appreiciated, sorry if this should have been in the combo thraed....

[Spark]

You don't really need to super jump, it's only needed when you're too far for j.2A to connect and that's pretty rare.

[dioxideUniversa]

the "double jump" part simply meant that you jump cancel the j.2a. i was thinking about this because our combo notation does not make any mention of the fact that there is a large delay between that jump and the j.2c, but delays are not something we've often included in the combo notation because many of hakumen's combos have several delays in them

either way, I will have some videos prepared tomorrow night which will rectify any confusion on the matter

[ban1son]

the "double jump" part simply meant that you jump cancel the j.2a. i was thinking about this because our combo notation does not make any mention of the fact that there is a large delay between that jump and the j.2c, but delays are not something we've often included in the combo notation because many of hakumen's combos have several delays in them

either way, I will have some videos prepared tomorrow night which will rectify any confusion on the matter

Thanks Spark, Dioxide....great help

[- Stasis -]

man, tk(not a real tk) agito is sexy

[Nefarious]

I decided to drop Rachel to sub status while learn Haku I like his gameplay a lot in this version.

His meter stops building in combos correct? Outside of of OD that is. His damage is crazy with meter.

Also what is his preferred anti air? 6P or 2C or is it character specific?

[dioxideUniversa]

haku's meter gain temporarily "stops" once when you spend 2 or more stars (note that enma does not count as two stars, it is 1 star twice.) after this set period, meter gain will resume again

6A is his only anti-air with head invuln, but it is only situationally useful due to how far it moves him forward. close-range jump ins or jump ins that occur nearly vertically are not really good candidates for 6A. 5A can also be used as an anti-air, and is sometimes more reliable than 6A, but it doesn't have head-invuln. 2C has no head invuln and the only thing going for it is its giant hit box. however, it is generally slow enough that you need to be yomi'ing them out pretty hard to AA with it.

5D can be used as an anti air (with a very high reward if you get the enma fatal, though this is difficult with jump-ins due to enma's startup. often times they will land and no longer be in CH state.)

similarly, j.D can also be used. however, with these two, keep in mind it is possible to block the parry if they recover fast enough (common for jump-ins if they are timed correctly) and thus are not as advantageous in CP as they were in previous versions.

hotaru can be useful as it is fully invulnerable

none of these options are "character specific," but as noted, some of them are situational.

Edited October 29, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[psycofang2]

finally got cp.

hakumen feels kinda stiff this time around, took a couple minutes to get used to his new loop.

i kinda feel what they were trying to get hakumen to be in this game but this damage is lol.

also hakus english voice...omfg

[mAc Chaos]

5C can be a kinda sorta AA if you space good.

[Nefarious]

Thanks for the info guys. Good stuff.

[- Stasis -]

I've been using 6A near the corner for the 5/2C > go ham and 6A > Enma > loop for mid screen.

Haku's back dash is so fast I don't even use Hotaru mid screen for grabs anymore. I just condition my opponent to tech grabs then back dash 3C CH for easy 6k damage. Still good if they press buttons, though.

Atm no one is standing up against TK Agito right now, so I get easy j.B confirms or use j.A to keep my pressure going. it can even be combo'd on CH which I like a lot ^^

Also, Haku vs Kagura is kinda tough.

Edit; what are you guy using for corner grabs? I've been doing Hotaru > j.C > 5C > 2C > j.B > j.2A > Dj.2C > Agito. anything better than that?

Edited October 29, 2013 by - Stasis -

[dioxideUniversa]

@Spark: I can't find the post you made about it, but do you have more info on step agito being +3? it doesn't seem the be plus at all based on my testing...

[g1Gilgamesh]

Right I just have to ask, is there any plausible use for 6d anymore? My hair grows faster than that things comes out.

[mAc Chaos]

A tool to teach new Hakumen players to block.

[g1Gilgamesh]

Kinda defeats it purpose that way, doesn't it?

[Raziul]

Also, Haku vs Kagura is kinda tough.

Edit; what are you guy using for corner grabs? I've been doing Hotaru > j.C > 5C > 2C > j.B > j.2A > Dj.2C > Agito. anything better than that?

You can change the j.2C to another j.C at the end if you're at the corner.

Also, Kagura can't do anything against an opponent in the air. They'd have to be masters of prediction and timing to get that 6C off right, and Haku's j.C will keep him from trying to knock you down from the sky. Both his standing overheads have very short range, he'd have to use a drive move to close, and you can just 3C as he changes stances. Almost every single one on of Kagura's drive moves are unsafe on block. Don't stand still though, Dragon Mirage (6DB) is probably his most dangerous one because of the switch up, but it whiffs if you're moving or jumping at all.

[Spark]

@Spark: I can't find the post you made about it, but do you have more info on step agito being +3? it doesn't seem the be plus at all based on my testing...

Oh I forgot to change that. It's definitely not punishable, but it's hard to tell what it is on block. Actually I guess depending on if it wins, loses, or trades with Tager 5A that will tell you if it's plus or minus at least.