[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[dioxideUniversa]

What normal would you use when just out of 2B range? Would it be 5C? I find that it's this range that gives me a lot of truble becuase I never know what normal to use.

And when would be the best time to use 5B? This normal as well as 5C probably elude me the most due to this fact that not only is its range a lot shorter than 2B, but its slower on startup too and whiffs on Crouchers if you're not close to point blank range. This causes me to not really try using it much if at all.

Also how do you approach movement with hakumen? I'm not sure if I should just walk forward, utilize his hop(which I never use) or jump/air dash(which I tend to do almost exclusively) when watching match vids of Jpn hakumen players I see them jump/super jump/ air dash a lot, but I'm not sure if that's because of the particular matchup or if its standard.

Lastly what do you do against characters that constantly jump directly above you? I find that I have no option to stop this advance and it's pretty much a 'get in for free or I eat a counter' type situation.

for just normals, that range is somewhat limited. 3c is obviously an option, but doesn't have followups without CH and certain characters could potentially punish it at max range if they IB. 5c does work but it is slow. 4c can work, but it is dangerous in certain matchups / especially at less than max range. in general, this is a nice range for specials like gurren or even renka IIRC will extend slightly past 2b's hitbox (though i'm away from the game atm and cannot check) if you're willing to spend the meter.

5B has pretty decent range but as you said is not great at hitting crouchers at max range.

learning to move on the ground is really important since frequent jump/ADers are extremely predictable. it is especially so for hakumen since most opponents realize that his air movement is stronger than his groudn movement. get used to incorporating hops in footsies, or even just walk crouchblock. his backstep is also really strong for footsie games now.

jp players are often jumping / ADing in response to cues / reads from their opponent. it is very different gameplay than just jumping and ADing exclusively / at random.

hotaru will work great at that range assuming they are not somehow behind you too far. 2C can also work, but it's slow enough that a read is often necessary for effective usage. kishuu can be an effective escape mechanism in this situation. 6A is not reliable, as I'm sure you're aware.

[Kriegdrache]

I'm having a little trouble still, but I'm getting used to it now.

But yeah, I'm literally just getting the loop down with an Enma starter like in the vid that Mac posted. I can sort of get the first rep down a bit better now, but I'm still bailing on the second unfortunately.

Played a few games tonight as well finally. Bit iffy still, but I did get some OD shit down, which is nice. It honestly felt like going SSJ as I was losing, I activate it and I win :|

Edited November 4, 2013 by Kriegdrache

[Raziul]

Who do I have to suck off in Arcsys to get Hakumen's 5A to not lose to grabs?

[edollarports]

Who do I have to suck off in Arcsys to get Hakumen's 5A to not lose to grabs?

Does it really? I've never had trouble mashing out of regular throw setups with it.

[Raziul]

I might just be cursed with Bad Luck. I've seen pretty much every single one of Hakumen's moves lose to a grab, and any time I try to press a button, I lose to some mashing 2A that turns into a 2-3k combo out of no where. Pretty tired of most of this BS. I think I'll just go start playing Ragna again so I'll be able to actually enjoy the game.

[edollarports]

Film teaches us that we need to mash harder and that one-sided matches can become victories if we mash back throw hard enough in the corner.

but yeah idk mash harder or something, real men commit to their mash

[dioxideUniversa]

what scenario are we talking specifically that involves 5a losing to a throw? there's really not much to this except startup frames

i can only assume it's in an oki situation, in which case to be thrown out of it, you'd be hitting 5a extremely late. even in a +/- 0 situation 5a would beat a throw by 2 frames

Edited November 5, 2013 by dioxideUniversa

[onemic]

for just normals, that range is somewhat limited. 3c is obviously an option, but doesn't have followups without CH and certain characters could potentially punish it at max range if they IB. 5c does work but it is slow. 4c can work, but it is dangerous in certain matchups / especially at less than max range. in general, this is a nice range for specials like gurren or even renka IIRC will extend slightly past 2b's hitbox (though i'm away from the game atm and cannot check) if you're willing to spend the meter.

5B has pretty decent range but as you said is not great at hitting crouchers at max range.

learning to move on the ground is really important since frequent jump/ADers are extremely predictable. it is especially so for hakumen since most opponents realize that his air movement is stronger than his groudn movement. get used to incorporating hops in footsies, or even just walk crouchblock. his backstep is also really strong for footsie games now.

jp players are often jumping / ADing in response to cues / reads from their opponent. it is very different gameplay than just jumping and ADing exclusively / at random.

hotaru will work great at that range assuming they are not somehow behind you too far. 2C can also work, but it's slow enough that a read is often necessary for effective usage. kishuu can be an effective escape mechanism in this situation. 6A is not reliable, as I'm sure you're aware.

I've actually never thought about using renka or gurren raw. What would you or most Hakumen's tend to do in this situation?

[Raziul]

Here's something you can help me with right now. What do I do against people who roll backwards in mid screen? Enma after them?

[A.X.I.S.]

I spent about an hour with CP Hakumen.

What is so hard to adjust to? All his stuff feels easier than EX lol.

[Raziul]

I spent about an hour with CP Hakumen.

What is so hard to adjust to? All his stuff feels easier than EX lol.

I'm still trying to do EX combos off Drive counters.

[dioxideUniversa]

Here's something you can help me with right now. What do I do against people who roll backwards in mid screen? Enma after them?

gurren used to be the go-to tool for that sort of thing, but the reward off enma is a lot higher. it's probably hard to punish rolls with tho due to its long startup. 2b has been the main tool for punish rolls for ukemi and you can get an enma combo off it i believe. if not that then renka

@onemic: 3c aside, probably gurren, maybe enma if i think they're going to do something i can low profile. i'm not the most meter conservative hakumen here, though

[mAc Chaos]

So I just got the game and played with someone for 2 hours or so.

Is it just me, or is Hakumen way more "floaty" in this one? I am surprised nobody mentioned it. I jumped and I practically went from one side of the screen to the other. It was kind of cool but weird.

I noticed the barrier guard + throw nerf really kills our throw game. Every time I went for 2A > throw I got bodied because it put me too far in time.

In fact, I had a hard time doing 2A > Hotaru too. Maybe the extra lift from it makes it take longer to come out?

So far I am pretty much doing CT combos, lul. But he has so many stars, it doesn't even matter. And just using the damage from raw specials like Tsubaki is fine too. At least until I learn to combo.

I also had no problem hit confirming into a single 2A (somehow it is just automatic now) so it is still good as a starter. It is just the P2 that sucks.

Edited November 5, 2013 by mAc Chaos

[BlackYakuzu94]

Should I be proud that I've gotten to the point where none of my friends want to fight my Hakumen?...like, its not even that good; about everyone else here outclasses me.

[Raziul]

Should I be proud that I've gotten to the point where none of my friends want to fight my Hakumen?...like, its not even that good; about everyone else here outclasses me.

Keep trolling them with Zantetsu till they learn to block overheads.

That's pretty much how I had to learn to fight Ragna -_- *grumble* OP ass 6B combo......

[mAc Chaos]

Want to play?

[Raziul]

I'm still pretty mediocre but sure. I need to work on a few things anyways.

[mAc Chaos]

All right, send me an invite because my eyes just roll up into the back of my head when I look at all this JP text.

I spent about an hour with CP Hakumen.

What is so hard to adjust to? All his stuff feels easier than EX lol.

nah bro

you asleep

[TheYukianesa-01]

Should I be proud that I've gotten to the point where none of my friends want to fight my Hakumen?...like, its not even that good; about everyone else here outclasses me.

I want to play you ;A;

[Raziul]

Edited November 5, 2013 by Raziul

[psycofang2]

thats like 90% of my matches with soul-6-ookami.

all 6k of them.

[BladeOfJustice7]

mAc, you have the game now?

[toanenadiz]

He does. The triumphant return of the scumbag sword has already began.

[Ctrlaltwtf]

He does. The triumphant return of the scumbag sword has already began.

He already dodged me the moment I got home and returned his request for a match. It truly has begun.

[BlackYakuzu94]

That pic, my god.

That does it, Mac I have to fight you now.