OmnixTSC Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Standard fare, then. Is the outrage justified, in the opinions of people that have actually played Chronophantasma?. The outrage is rarely justified. His damage isn't as over-the-top as some people will have you believe b/c of what you sacrifice to do that damage at times. You lose meter that you need for mixup/pressure to do that 4-5k damage or you spent the meter on a mixup that didn't work and are now short a means of doing dat damage. Now, there are times where I question the amount of damage I'm doing. Those hate-causing-combos are so rare now, though. All that aside, the best part is when you question someone's character choice. Me: "Wait...what character are you playing to have this many issues with Haku's neutral and damage?" Response: "Oh, I'm playing Hazama." Me: "..."
Raziul Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Voiding chains 2 strong. Voids are broken as hell man.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Hey, its not our fault people wanna keep throwin chains at our face.
Sophisticat Posted February 5, 2014 Author Posted February 5, 2014 OD makes people whine. You can win a match on a random CH from no HP even though the guy is about to perfect you. No one likes that. But putting OD aside, I think most Haku mains feel he's become too one-dimensional in CP. Too much about raw damage output and not enough about just outplaying the other guy and getting wins from good play. It's harder to get in hits, and just not as satisfying to play him overall.
Speakeasy Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 So is he not as fun as in Extend? From what I've played of him in Extend, it felt like he was about exploiting openings and using those juicy counters to beat the opponent with raw skill. Every hit you got was a failure on the enemy's part, so it was like beating them and rubbing your victory in their face at the same time. Now is he just "hit a few times and done"? .... Judging from that description, I may be a sociopath. I should probably seek professional help.
Sophisticat Posted February 5, 2014 Author Posted February 5, 2014 Mileage will vary. CP could be his most fun iterations for you. What makes him less fun for me now is that despite increased burst dmg, it's harder to open people up. Less opportunities to get in dmg. But when you do, you generally hit pretty hard. It's this all-or-nothing profile that is less appealing. He has poor pressure, mixup and AAs as it is. I certainly would give up OD for half-way decent options, here.
OmnixTSC Posted February 5, 2014 Posted February 5, 2014 Mileage will vary. CP could be his most fun iterations for you. What makes him less fun for me now is that despite increased burst dmg, it's harder to open people up. Less opportunities to get in dmg. But when you do, you generally hit pretty hard. It's this all-or-nothing profile that is less appealing. He has poor pressure, mixup and AAs as it is. I certainly would give up OD for half-way decent options, here. His pressure is okay, but I don't have much of an issue with opening people up. Haku's mixup game is lacking, but it's never been all that great to begin with. We've just "lost" one of our more significant pressure/mixup tools with the overall throw nerf. It's all about your meter management to know what tools will work against a certain player. I feel as if you have to pick up on your opponents' habits a lot more quickly in CP than past games if you're trying to win by outplaying your opponents. I rarely get to go for those giant bursts damage combos b/c I win at neutral or bait the other player properly, which causes them to lose to a lot of smaller combos and pseudo-mixup before any of Haku's apparent weaknesses come into play for me. I would like to see his pressure/mixup improve a bit with the balance patch in exchange for damage, as I really just want his damage to be toned down a bit. I honestly don't care if I don't get anything in exchange for less damage...I don't feel like it will affect me much.
Moblin Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Frame trapping/baiting jump outs is one of my favorite things to do with Hakumen pressure. Sometimes I'll get 60% of my opponent's HP from just calling their jump outs with 2b or 3c and resetting into knockdown. That being said, I think a lot of people's problem with this iteration of Hakumen is that when you get a hit, it is often a mistake/oversight on your opponent's part rather than an instance of you outplaying them. Even at top levels.
Raziul Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Is anyone else having trouble with wake-up yukikaze coming out when they're meatying you with a projectile? It never seems to work for me in situations like this and I can't figure out why.
SansProtocol Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Is anyone else having trouble with wake-up yukikaze coming out when they're meatying you with a projectile? It never seems to work for me in situations like this and I can't figure out why. Input the motion of Yukikaze during the Neutral Tech invincibility and press D just as his toes are about to touch the ground. It gets to be second nature if you use it enough, trust me.
Raziul Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Input the motion of Yukikaze during the Neutral Tech invincibility and press D just as his toes are about to touch the ground. It gets to be second nature if you use it enough, trust me. I've used it enough to know haha. But sometimes I swear I'm getting hit by the projectile before Haku hits the ground. Usually if I input it wrong or late he'll use the wrong Drive move, and the only time this happens is against projectiles. It just seems like a weird thing, and I was mostly curious if anyone else was having the same issue.
mAc Chaos Posted February 8, 2014 Posted February 8, 2014 Go to training mode, pick Nu and record her knocking down Haku into her sword spam super. Then practice Yukikaze and see what gets messed up.
Sophisticat Posted February 13, 2014 Author Posted February 13, 2014 So new changes are in: Hakumen - Air Throw – Can no longer cancel the first hit into Overdrive. The second hit now ground bounces - Magatama Gauge – Decreases the rate that the gauge increases while Hakumen is midair. (Includes during Overdrive) - 6D – Increased the forward movement greatly, now has less recovery when it misses - Jump D – Can now be canceled into Agito immediately with only the press of an A button - Agito – Increased hitstop and recovery, is now worse on block While I agree with all the changes, I don't feel like he changed all that much. They basically made it harder to confirm OD while toning down dmg via meter gain nerf. Was also hoping we'd get something extra, but it doesn't seem to be the case. They didn't do much beyond "fixing" him. Sucks.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 So new changes are in: Hakumen - Air Throw – Can no longer cancel the first hit into Overdrive. The second hit now ground bounces - Magatama Gauge – Decreases the rate that the gauge increases while Hakumen is midair. (Includes during Overdrive) - 6D – Increased the forward movement greatly, now has less recovery when it misses - Jump D – Can now be canceled into Agito immediately with only the press of an A button - Agito – Increased hitstop and recovery, is now worse on block While I agree with all the changes, I don't feel like he changed all that much. They basically made it harder to confirm OD while toning down dmg via meter gain nerf. Was also hoping we'd get something extra, but it doesn't seem to be the case. They didn't do much beyond "fixing" him. Sucks. Well we got cancelable J.D and less recovery on 6D......so that's something I guess?
Spark Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 6D already only has 6F of recovery, seems like an odd change.
Julimano Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 - Air Throw – Can no longer cancel the first hit into Overdrive. The second hit now ground bounces maybe this mean that the air throw will act a little like agito ch? I wonder how it will affect the OD combos...
Spark Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 Looks like you can still do them as long as you RC into them.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 Yea, that's what I was thinking too. In fact, that gives us more OD time actually doesn't it.
Raziul Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 - Air Throw – Can no longer cancel the first hit into Overdrive. The second hit now ground bounces Does this mean no more height dependent air grab combos?!
Koopa_Klawz Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Until they make 6D f1 again, I'm not giving a shit about what happens to that move. EDIT: Also, about AT > OD, can't we also just do AT > Hotaru > AD > OD? Edited February 13, 2014 by Koopa_Klawz
mAc Chaos Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 I guess it will be more useful in gatlings to catch mashing or baiting DPs on wakeup.
IndigoNovember Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 - Air Throw – Can no longer cancel the first hit into Overdrive. So they're really recommending we make the most out of our Overdrives instead of being lazy and not Rapid Canceling Air Throw. Got it. Does this mean no more height dependent air grab combos?! I hope so, no more whiffing j.2C because I was a pixel too low and should have used j.B would be nice.
Ctrlaltwtf Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 "6D – Increased the forward movement greatly, now has less recovery when it misses." I'd really like to see that first bit. If it's like a running counter similar to Baiken's guardpoint-rush that'd be neat.
Warhound Posted February 13, 2014 Posted February 13, 2014 I don't have a lot CP Hakumen experience as I'm still waiting for it to come to the consoles here, sooo. What does all of this mean? Can we still chain an OD combo with his air grab? Less meter gain in the air seems like an odd change too, was it that big of a deal? 6D change was rather pointless. Less recovery, but still not 1F startup. Yaaaaay. Agito chain from a j.D is cool I guess. Agito lost some usefulness in terms of pressure from my understanding, which seems like its job besides being a combo ender. Not really understanding these changes :/
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