[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BladeOfJustice7]

From the video it looks like he is entirely in the burst, so it doesn't seem likely that it's the upper body invincibility of 623A. Plus I thought 623A technically does not have any form of upper body invincibility anymore.

From my understanding he still has mid and upper body invincibility, but they removed the projectile invincibility from what I remember.

Maybe it's a projectile invincibility thing?

Things are coming together...

I don't recall anything saying he still retains projectile invincibility during the loketests, in fact, that's one of the things they got rid of since the first loketest. And I don't recall them ever bringing it back.

Coming together how?

[mAc Chaos]

You know, now that I think about it, couldn't you Kishuu through bursts in Extend. Or at least if it was that same situation. I guess it's good if it survived the nerfs though.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yes you could, I've had so many matches where I've done that. I'm surprised you haven't experienced that this far, considering your level of skill and how often you play :/

[mAc Chaos]

I get all my bursts in the air and just block and do a 2C combo.

[itsme]

I'm sure there are a lot stuff from the loketest could have easily been the testers making mistakes because of how they tested it, game speed change, hell the loketest info probably gives us a general idea but nothing 100% since even the jP players too are finally getting to do more in depth research now that the game is out. I wouldn't be surprised if they did take out the projectile invul from Kishuu, but it wouldn't be weird if it's not gone as well.

Also, the jbbs seems to have gotten down calculating the prorations for his new moves. 90 starter 6B sounds so delicious.

Combo Rate 60

Name Base Damage/P1/P2

5A　350/90/77

5B　590/100/89

5C　1210/100/92

2A　300/100/77

2B　450/90/89

2C　1150/90/92

6A　620/80/89

6B　590x2/90/92

6C(1)　1500/100/94

6C(2)　1700/100/94

6C(max)　2000/100/94

4C　700/100/89

4C(max)　1600/100/94

3C　1200/90/92

JA　320/90/77

JB　590/90/89

JC　1300/90/92

J2A　780/90/70

J2C　1100/90/92

5D　1800/100/60

2D　1800/100/60

6D　1400/100/80

JD　2000/100/45

F. Throw　1400/100/60

B. Throw　700x2/100/100.60

A. Throw　1400/?/?

CT　1000/80/100

Guren　560/100/92

Enma　860/100/72

Renka　750x2/90/92.60

Zantetsu　2100.750/90/94.62

Agito　800/?/92

Hotaru　1200/90/82

Tsubaki　2800/90/92

Shippu　3200/100/60

Yukikaze　3800/100/30

　※CT, Zantetsu(1), Tsubaki and Shippu isn't affected by the combo rate

Again, think of this as pretty pictures until we get more data.

Edited November 22, 2012 by itsme

[mAc Chaos]

So for those of you who are familiar with the normal values, which ones are worse and which are better.

Did his combo rate change?

[Spark]

Oh awesome, I was going to try to figure out that stuff from the random combos in match videos.

His combo rate stayed the same.

I'm looking over the changes right now will update with a list in a second.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yukikaze　3800/100/30

All is right in the world, it no longer does exactly 3k. That move is too risky to nerf it's damage.

Shippu　3200/100/60

Wait... what? Q_Q

I guess it has a damage buff in OD.

And good job itsme, you just made Spark's life over 9000 times easier now.

EDIT: @mAc, just wait till Spark makes the thread showing the changes. Though the ones that stood out to me was that 5c got a damage buff of 100, j2a got a nerf of about 200, and tsubaki got a 600 damage buff.

Edited November 22, 2012 by BladeOfJustice7

[itsme]

Pretty much most of his A/B normals were buffed in regards to being a starter, hell Enma got a nice buff as a starter too but it's P2 is still low so I'm guessing it's not that Enma's P2 got better, it's just that all of his starters are actually decent starters now unlike how the loketest reported.

[mAc Chaos]

Are you gonna make a new Haku Guide Spark? The CS one is pretty ancient at this point.

Meanwhile I am furiously writing down every combo I see.

[Spark]

Blue means buffed, red means nerfed, and no color means it's arguable.

5A:

P1 85 > 90

DMG 400 > 350

P2 84 > 77

5B:

P1 90 > 100

5C:

DMG　1110 > 1210

2A:

P1 85 > 100

DMG　350 > 300

P2 84 > 77

2B:

P1 80 > 90

P2 86 > 89

2C:

DMG 1050 >　1150

6A:

P1 85 > 80

6B:

P1 50 > 90

P2 90 > 92

6C(1):

DMG 1300 >　1500

P2 92 > 94

6C(2):

DMG 1600 >　1700

P2 92 > 94

6C(max):

P2 92 > 94

4C:

P1 80 > 100

4C(max):

P1 80 > 100

3C:

P2 88 > 92

JA:

P1 85 > 90

DMG 400 >　320

P2 84 > 77

JB:

Unchanged

JC:

DMG 900 >　1300

P2 89 > 92

J2A:

P1 80 > 90

DMG 980 >　780

P2 75 > 70

J2C:

DMG 1000 >　1100

5D:

DMG 1400 >　1800

P2 45 > 60

2D:

DMG 1100 >　1800

P2 45 > 60

6D:

P2 45 > 80

JD:

Unchanged

BC:

P1 90,100 > 100

P2 100,55 > 60

DMG 1600 >　1400

4BC:

P1 90,100x2 > 100

P2 100,110,50 > 100,60

DMG 800x2 >　700x2

j.BC:

Unknown P1 P2

DMG 1500 >　1400

CT:

DMG　1000

P1 80

P2 100

Guren:

P2 89 > 92

Enma:

P1 90 > 100

P2 75 > 72

Renka:

P2 100,55 > 92,60

DMG 830,860 > 750x2

Zantetsu:

DMG 2430,550 > 2100,750

P2 80,94 > 94,62

Agito:

DMG　800

P1 ??

P2 92

Hotaru:

P1 70 > 90

DMG 1500 >　1200

P2 92 > 82

Tsubaki:

DMG 2200 > 2800

P1 70 > 90

P2 90 > 92

Shippu:

DMG 4000 >　3200

Yukikaze:

Unchanged

Edited November 22, 2012 by Spark

[mAc Chaos]

Damn, so many buffed normals...

[Spark]

Haha this is only looking at proration and damage. I'm sure it'll balance out once you look at actual use(start up, active, recovery, untechtime, etc.) I'm going through the videos and trying the numbers out with the combos I'm seeing and checking to see if anythings off. So far as long as the numbers for Renka are correct it still means it has bonus prorate.

[Mightfo]

Wow, 6b P1 got a lot better. I guess with all that meter he now gets, rapiding that into damage could be useful.

[WolfCrimson]

WOOOO Tsubaki does more damage than a regular character's distortion drive... And it's a fricking overhead.

Edited November 22, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[BladeOfJustice7]

I'm certain we just someone to just sit down and figure him out combo wise.

@Spark, sounds like a lot of the nerfs we were worried about, maybe not so much you. Are no longer the case, kishuu going through bursts, and renka still (potentially) having bonus proration.

Also, holy fuck OD yukikaze is the coolest thing ever I've seen from Hakumen this far. Fuck everything I said before, I'm officially hype for this game.

[itsme]

Also, holy fuck OD yukikaze is the coolest thing ever I've seen from Hakumen this far. Fuck everything I said before, I'm officially hype for this game.

Where did you see it and do you have a link to said video of it?

Also, is there really any bonus proration for Renka? I just ran a calc through and it looked like it didn't have any at all though I only found one combo to work with it.

Edited November 22, 2012 by itsme

[C0R]

Only the first hit of Renka has bonus prorate, the relatively poor prorate of the second hit may be why the entirety of the move seems ineffective in basic calculations,

[itsme]

I mean I tried calculating without the bonus proration and it comes out fine so I don't know if I'm mistaking how to calculate damage here or how the bonus proration is used in calculation :/.

[Kriegdrache]

watching some stuff, and throw > CT seems to be a cute little combo. did about 3.2k

[Isuna]

So they went haywire buffing all starting proration, lol.

I guess maybe Zantetsu > Kishuu can lead to some rather good damage now.

I see a lot more Zanshin (well, except 6D), is it because no one has figure out the game yet, or is the game speed working in the favour of them?

Seems like they lowered the hitstop on 5D since the first loketest.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Where did you see it and do you have a link to said video of it?

Stream from last night, Valkenhayn was doing score attack mode and got blown up by Hakumen's yukikaze lol.

[Spark]

Where did you see it and do you have a link to said video of it?

Also, is there really any bonus proration for Renka? I just ran a calc through and it looked like it didn't have any at all though I only found one combo to work with it.

Actually I just checked again and it doesn't have bonus prorate. When I was doing the math I used the old damage value for 2C instead of the new one. So the damage of the combo didn't seem right unless 236B had bonus prorate, but after using the new 2C damage it came out right without bonus prorate.

[mAc Chaos]

You know what.

Tons of stars + questionable normal counters + Yukikaze that covers everything

We should just spam Yukikaze from now on. If you're going to use a normal counter, might as well just Yukikaze instead.

I will have to try this out and see if I miss the 4 stars.

[CupofT]

Best solution I've heard all day.