[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[itsme]

I'm going to bet some joker out there will attempt Akumetsu > OD > Akumetsu some day.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Actually I just checked again and it doesn't have bonus prorate. When I was doing the math I used the old damage value for 2C instead of the new one. So the damage of the combo didn't seem right unless 236B had bonus prorate, but after using the new 2C damage it came out right without bonus prorate.

So you're saying it doesn't have bonus proration right? I'm not good at math, like at all. SO just trying to clarify. And Spark how are you feeling about these changes for our White Void. I'd like to hear your opinion the most.

You know what.

Tons of stars + questionable normal counters + Yukikaze that covers everything

We should just spam Yukikaze from now on. If you're going to use a normal counter, might as well just Yukikaze instead.

I will have to try this out and see if I miss the 4 stars.

It's quite sad that I thought of the same thing xD

[mAc Chaos]

Well, you already love using Yukikaze. For me that's like turning over a new leaf.

First we'll have to see what specific uses the normal counters can have though. I'm sure they could be used for certain things... but if you want to counter an overhead, we have Yukikaze still.

I'm going to bet some joker out there will attempt Akumetsu > OD > Akumetsu some day.

How would that work. Don't you need a burst to use Akumetsu. But going into OD uses your burst.

Edited November 22, 2012 by mAc Chaos

[Sophisticat]

I'm just going to OD -> Mugen all day every day.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Well, you already love using Yukikaze. For me that's like turning over a new leaf.

I don't use it that much, and we need to play come to think of it. I use kishuu WAYY more than I use Yukikaze. Yukikaze is like my version of CA's.

First we'll have to see what specific uses the normal counters can have though. I'm sure they could be used for certain things... but if you want to counter an overhead, we have Yukikaze still.

How would that work. Don't you need a burst to use Akumetsu. But going into OD uses your burst.

Yes you're right there.

I'm just going to OD -> Mugen all day every day.

After that, continuously mash yukikaze until it works lol

[Kriegdrache]

I am going to use 6D!

Also haku mirror:

Both OD > YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE YUKIKAZE

[CupofT]

How would that work. Don't you need a burst to use Akumetsu. But going into OD uses your burst.

Hold on, I think I missed something in the system changes. Do AHs still use the burst meter? I thought they didn't. Can someone clarify please

[Nemesis]

Hold on, I think I missed something in the system changes. Do AHs still use the burst meter? I thought they didn't. Can someone clarify please

You dont need any kind of busrt or OD meter to AH anymore

[CupofT]

Thanks Nemesis.

So I'll be having fun OD and using up all my stars on Akumetsu all day

[Nemesis]

I know right? is there any speculation on OD Astral Fininsh? or is it just a swag distortion thing? =O

[Skeletal Minion]

So how's Haku's cool down? Is it still 90F on 2+ mag specials/180F for Distortions? How does cool down affect his mag gain rate during OD?

Any confirmed changes on Mugen?

I'll comment more once the tryptophan wears off :P

Edited November 22, 2012 by Skeletal Minion

[itsme]

Mugen looks like it went back to its CT roots. Shippu minimum nerfed and I think SMP is accounted for but only to the tech proration e.g. Tsubaki gained SMP this game so you can do something like three Tsubaki > Shippu for 7k-ish before they can tech by the fourth Tsubaki. I think I read in the jbbs that Tsubaki still ignores the combo rate but Zantetsu sadly doesn't. It's easier to combo into it from a forward grab though so that's a plus I guess, if a grab > Mugen > OD can get a 5k+ burst impossible, I guess it's still usable outside of gimmicks.

[Isuna]

So how's Haku's cool down? Is it still 90F on 2+ mag specials/180F for Distortions? How does cool down affect his mag gain rate during OD?

Cooldown is probably still 90F, but it doesn't stop his gain completely just slows it down!

However, I think they've added cooldown to 1 magatama specials, but with just the slow down it doesn't really matter.

I think there is no cooldown during OD. There could be, but because of the retarded speed of OD I don't think it matters either.

Any confirmed changes on Mugen?

Constant used-more-than-9-magatama-3x speed, neutralizes with OD.

If you hit with Shippuu or Yukikaze during OD Mugen, Mugen will end but you will (at least) have no cooldown until OD ends.

[Kriegdrache]

Mugen sounds like it could be a lot of fun if you can consistently get it off.

I've never bothered with it, because it felt like a big waste of meter if I didn't get the proper confirm, but with OD and the stupid meter gain you get now, I'll probably try to use it more.

Tsubakicopter is a go!

[Isuna]

I just think it needs to be faster, so that it can be used in combos other than from max 6C.

Especially now that it ends so quickly, you cannot really just throw it out and hope to get a combo.

And you can't use CT during Mugen.

[Spark]

A/B Starters EX vs CP: worst to best

EX 2B: .80 * .86 = .688

CP 5A: .9 * .77 = .693

CP jA: .9 * .77 = .693

EX 5A: .85 * .84 = .714

EX 2A: .85 * .84 = .714

EX jA: .85 * .84 = .714

CP 2A: 1 * .77 = .770

CP 2B: .9 * .89 = .801

EX 5B: .9 * .89 = .801

EX/CP jB: .9 * .89 = .801

CP 5B: 1 * .89 = .890

So in CP 5B, 2B, and 2A are much better as starters than they were in EX. Especially 2B going from the worst starter in EX to being one of the best. Where 5A and j.A both got worse as starters. Finally j.B staying surprisingly the same. So what does this mean for Hakumen in CP?

Not knowing any of the frame data yet, so this is mostly speculation when it comes to punishes and what not. 5A starter nerf means smaller punishes on things that can be punished easily by a 5F normal like Hazama 6A(w/o IB), or Tager 236A(w/ IB). It also means less damage from using it as an anti-air though if 5A CH > 5C still connects the damage should still be worth while. j.A starter nerf gives it worse pay off for air to air and will also mean a worse combo after doing j.B > j.A as a block string and them getting hit by j.A. 5B after the buff is pretty close to the C normals in terms of a starter so landing a hit with it means it's probably worth while to spend some meter for good damage(maybe CH 5B will go into CT?). 2B got super buffed as a starter which is awesome, because while being a pretty decent poke it is the only low that Hakumen has that he can continue pressure after so it's nice that he can get real damage off of it now. 2A getting 100 P1 is pretty surprising seeing as how much range and how fast it is, so it's good to know punishing with 2A will still deal damage.

From the above it's looking pretty good for Hakumen proration wise when it comes to starting combos, however...

A/B combo filler/hit confirming use Ex vs CP: worst to best

CP 5A: .77

CP 2A: .77

CP jA: .77

EX 5A: .84

EX 2A: .84

EX jA: .84

EX 2B: .86

EX/CP 5B: .89

CP 2B: .89

The P2s for Hakumen's A moves have gotten much worse in CP. Which means even if you get a good starter your damage can go down fast if you use extra A normals to confirm. For example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=knwMjOHR-5A#t=101s) 4 stars were used in this combo and the damage was only 1808 even though he only confirmed with one extra 2A. I checked without the extra 2A and the damage goes up to ~2056 which is still pretty low though I guess it means that you should go for a meter efficient combo off a 2A starter. So ideally when using moves to hit confirm it's best to use 5B/2B since their proration has gotten better or stayed the same which you can already see in videos where they do j.2C CH > 2B > 623AA > etc for decent damage. With all that in mind I really hope 2A > 2B works on standing opponents or it's going to be all about 2A x 3 > 3C.

[SteelCoil]

It's not too big of a deal. 5B and 2B are easy enough to hit confirm with practice, and I always liked to do meaty 2A > 2B as a hit confirm. It doesn't look like that's going to change much. Although, it would be strange if 2A > 3C works on standing opponents but 2A > 2B doesn't.

Also, seeing j.C without the "TEYAH" is really weird.

[Spark]

2A > 3C might be an actual chain and not a late chain. Or they let you chain to 3C before 2B.

[mAc Chaos]

I wonder if 2A 2B 623AA will be a good route. Or 2A 2B Renka.

Or just 2B and those things.

[WolfCrimson]

YOU CAN FUCKING FEINT 4C. FUCKING 4C.

[mAc Chaos]

explain this madness

[WolfCrimson]

You can cancel the startup of 4C. And return to neutral. AKA FEINT FUCKING 4C!!!!!!

Saw it on the stream.

[Shiny Umbreon]

You can cancel the startup of 4C. And return to neutral. AKA FEINT FUCKING 4C!!!!!!

Saw it on the stream.

No fucking way.

[Spark]

Wonder how it's done.

[Isuna]

Oh, I was just at the arcade and found out that you could feint 4C and was going to be all cool "you guys, I found out something even the Japanese don't know". Aww. XD

edit: I hope for the love of Ra that it wasn't me who was on that stream DX