Hey if "Posting Dumb Shit" is an infraction worthy offense

[Circuitous]

Plenty of people already have more than five. It isn't really hard.

[killionaire]

Well, you'd know better than I would.

[4r5]

Do we not have a way to ban people from posting? Is it only all or nothing?

[C0R]

Do we not have a way to ban people from posting? Is it only all or nothing?

IP ban vs. User ban, I'm under the impression they're implementing a user ban.

[Skye]

Do we not have a way to ban people from posting? Is it only all or nothing?

I think it's possible to apply specific rights and privileges to individual users, so it's technically possible to remove those privileges individually, but it's not as simple as a button push or a checkbox.

I don't know much about this forum's system, but it also might be possible to construct a setting so that it's easier.

[RaveSage]

I think it's possible to apply specific rights and privileges to individual users, so it's technically possible to remove those privileges individually, but it's not as simple as a button push or a checkbox.

I don't know much about this forum's system, but it also might be possible to construct a setting so that it's easier.

Not extremely familiar with vB, but I'd assume like other forum systems, you would just make a new user group and set it to having no posting rights. Just move violators into that group and mods can PM them to clarify the situation and change them back when needed.

[dragontamer]

Lesson in operant conditioning: Negative Reinforcement is a terrible teacher. Positive Reinforcement is much better.

In this sense, it becomes very easy to see how "degenerative mob trolling behavior" happens. If a second person decides to troll with you, he is positively reinforcing the trolling behavior. Even if moderators use negative reinforcement (ie: Banning and/or infractions), people won't be affected by it. In fact, most people become confused when confronted with negative reinforcement. (notice: "why was sogos banned" was an early theme in this thread).

Its not an issue of intelligence, its basic psychology. Infractions are a useful tool to encourage behavior, but its not powerful enough to be the primary tool.

Here's a survey of successful communities I've been to:

1. StackOverflow -- Very powerful new paradigm. People are encouraged to up-vote, and discouraged to down-vote (it costs you points to down-vote). Overall, you get up-voted if you make a useful answer to a question. Also, you get an up-vote if you made a good question. Thus, people learn to ask good questions, and people learn to write good answers.

2. Smogon -- Competitive Pokemon forum. Posters with good behavior are given badges, after deliberation of the moderators. http://www.smogon.com/forums/faq.php?faq=smogon#faq_badges . Badges are born when moderators want to recognize a poster for what he has done. That is, organizing tournaments, contributing artwork, writing articles or whatever. If it benefits the site, then they get a badge.

Anyway, thats something I noticed that this site is missing. Positive reinforcement. The only positive reinforcement is basically stickying a thread and making someone a Moderator... not nearly powerful enough to encourage good behavior across this forum. The badge system is more suited for a forum and should be simpler to implement. Immediately, here are some things I can think of.

* Scout -- The poster knows Japanese and uses his knowledge to give us translations on the latest news from Japan. For example, HeartNana in Noel forums. He's gone to loketests, translates the blogs, etc. etc.

* Contributor -- Wrote a useful guide. It doesn't need to be official. Basically anyone who wrote a stickied guide in the various character forums.

* Tournament Organizer -- `nuff said. Needs to be someone who does it regularly. Zeth07 for instance.

* Knows his shit -- People who know their shit. So that new players who come to the forums know who they're talking to. This should be given to strong players who know how to debate well. Preferably, they shouldn't troll too much (or else, people will be encouraged to troll). They also should be relatively talkative in the general forums.

Just some ideas. It will take a bit of work to set up a system like this, but in the long run, it ought to make this community better. There is a risk in making the badge system look like a "secret club" of Dustloop. Thus... badged members need remain humble about their accomplishments. Its just a friggen badge. A public "nominations" thread for badges also helps. (with the rule that you're not allowed to nominate yourself, and it will take three public nominations before the moderators consider it). That way, people know that the badges are born from the community, and not from the "elite club".

Edited October 28, 2010 by dragontamer

[shtkn]

4r5, there's a 'no posting allowed' usergroup that GB made, but it's never been used afaik. There's also a "no gameplay" group too

very interesting idea dragontamer. i'm also not sure how i'd implement it, but i'll look into it

[RaveSage]

Actually, since Smogon uses vB, all the staff would have to do is get the mod code and stick it into the site. You don't even have to know code. The forum takes care of the hard stuff and you just give badge names and images. I'm in agreement this sort of system could make DL a better place.

[CakeWasBannedd]

i implemented a policy where if you get enough infractions you are automatically tempbanned.

how many infractions does it take you may ask?

well each infraction is worth 1 point, and if you get 5 points, you get banned for a week. infractions disappear after a set amount of time (depends on the type)

i can change these values / policy if ppl disagree with it and offer solutions.

of course for extraordinary cases of stupid, we can take banning measures and whatnot more quickly

i have 4 infractions and all of them are set to expire in 2011 like halfway through the year or in september. so uhh yeah.

[Henaki]

how about titles such as "Animelord: King of Story" and "This Dude Knows "What's Up"" so blades get seperated from the zidanes

edit: i know that was kind of in dragontamers post.

also ban blade from gameplay forums (and only gameplay forums). he simply posts misinformation and derails threads constantly. i mean like, it wouldn't be an option if he learned any better, but he legitimately does not like competitive play, nor does he have even the most fundamental undersatnding of it. if he hates "tryharding" and "cheap shit", he has no business even caring about the gameplay of fighting games to begin with and thus has nothing to contribute. it's pretty simple.

edit: ok stipulation change: how about if blade ever posts in a gameplay forum stating a fact that is wrong ever again, he gets banned from them. he would still be able to ask questions (and ONLY ask questions) or be 100% right on what he says. if he does not feel confident in being right about a fact, the problem solves itself through him not posting facts he does not actually check, or he gets banned from gameplay forums.

FOR THE RECORD: i am okay with people sorta new being clueless and learning after a few posts. if they post something dumb, get corrected and learn their lesson, whatever. people like blade (and a couple of others in the gameplay forums) repeatedly never learn their lesson or improve their knowledge in the game. first time offenses are forgiveable, everyone was 15 and though they were good because they spammed hammerfall (true story). if they stay in that phase 10 years later, that's completely different.

i have 4 infractions and all of them are set to expire in 2011 like halfway through the year or in september. so uhh yeah.

all of my infractions from that thread were reversed.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Henaki

[C0R]

i have 4 infractions and all of them are set to expire in 2011 like halfway through the year or in september. so uhh yeah.

I'm sure the moderators would be more than reasonable if you just talk with them about it.

Though you do bring up a good point, that is a large amount of time.

[CakeWasBannedd]

also ban blade from gameplay forums (and only gameplay forums). he simply posts misinformation and derails threads constantly. i mean like, it wouldn't be an option if he learned any better, but he legitimately does not like competitive play, nor does he have even the most fundamental undersatnding of it. if he hates "tryharding" and "cheap shit", he has no business even caring about the gameplay of fighting games to begin with and thus has nothing to contribute. it's pretty simple.

this please, seriously. he only leads people to insult him and call him stupid, which gets the thread completely off track, often to the point where circ has to intervene.

[unsanctifier]

I think a reward system is quite silly for this situation

We're in a gaming forum, a PUBLIC gaming forum. We'll have jerks, ass-hats, a shit-ton of trolls, etc.

I think the mods and the community ALL need to lighten up. A few random discussion threads, or a sub-forum just for random BS would be one of the better solutions. People end up derailing topics because they don't have many places to talk to a whole forum of people about other similar interests they share. I agree that threads should be kept on topic on some level, but not with an iron-fist. I'm not saying the mods are doing that, I actually like what's going on with them, but the shit-storm blade thread WAS inevitable, they knew that. He pissed off a lot of people, or at least looked really stupid in front of them. Just delete and go on, you can't stop people's opinions.

As for the community, again this is a public gaming forum - we're bound to have a significant portion of fools, people who are bored, or legitimate idiots. Welcome to reality :3.

Just give us more places to dick around. Pl0x. It'll keep the different groups of people separated. But for those idiots who are running around in gameplay discussion or any other thread with a legit point to it and just dicking around, infractions/bans is the only solution after warnings from Mods.

That's my solution! I'll accept my reward in candies.

[Circuitous]

You need a place to dick around on Dustloop? Match Finder. XBL/PSN General. If those aren't good enough, how about the entire rest of the internet?

[Skye]

Thing is, bandwidth costs money, so it's generally easier to save bandwidth by not using it on stuff that don't do a darn thing to help further the community/knowledge of the game.

It's a public gaming forum, rl/random stuff can go in the match finder threads or PMs, which they often do.

Otherwise, keep it game related.

[Spirit Juice]

I'm just going to turn DL into a private forum and you can only get in via an invite. I'll call it Spirit Juice's Tree House. Everyone that has posted in this thread is not invited.

[CakeWasBannedd]

I'm just going to turn DL into a private forum and you can only get in via an invite. I'll call it Spirit Juice's Tree House. Everyone that has posted in this thread is not invited.

including you

[Henaki]

no spirit jakes.

note the plural, so zidane is allowed in, but not spirit juice.

[Spirit Juice]

You're not an admin, so nice try.

[Cirno]

understandable, proper ideas to benefit good behavior

This I really like. On another forum I moderate, we used to have a pretty bad attitude to most members because a majority of the posters were, to be fair, less than reasonable. As soon as we implemented a system for rewarding users for appropriate posting (badges system, special ranks, etc) people were much easier to deal with, and seemed to care about their own stature from then on. People wanted to post well to be rewarded these items, and continued to post well to keep them. However, we still needed to resolve our own issues. For example, not going off on someone for a bad post, and instead kindly requesting they fix their behavior (in a PM if possible). This normally ends in the situation being dealt with nicely, but on the occasion they didn't, they got 'warned' or banned depending on the case at hand (we have an auto temp-ban system after 3 'warnings').

I genuinely don't think there is ever an appropriate situation for a moderator to openly say "Fuck you, stop posting" to anyone in a thread. That's entirely no way to set an example, and could only serve to further irritate the person posting, or get m@d pr0ps by other pretentious members (either intentionally or unintentionally) and get the message sigged by them or something equally idiotic. Even if you need to call someone out on their behavior, a PM would be ideal. If they still don't adhere, an infraction seems plenty acceptable.

Gonna be honest, though, I think this is a good thread with a lot of potential-- of which it already has-- to receive feedback and I'm glad it hasn't been locked. Been feeling like saying some of this for a while now.

[C0R]

Now imagine if all troll threads could become just as productive.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/constructive.png

(I found this hilarious, and relevant, hopefully appropriate.)

I've always loved the Karma system in all of its forms. While it may not be a sure fire solution, I really can't see it having a detrimental effect. However it is quite a bit of work to implement the infrastructure and have users adapt to it, I guess it's up to the admins to decide if the payoff would be worth it.

I actually don't think this forum is all that bad in terms of misbehavior. I've emerged scarred from the deepest recess of the interwebz, and DL has a relatively high level of tolerance and intelligence. But most sites with aforementioned system have been, overall, better in almost every respect.

If a reward system is implemented, it'll be up to the users themselves to make it really work. I mean, if the community, on average needs to clean themselves up a bit, then it has to be their decision to do that, a simple "Be better people" doesn't actually work, as much as we would like it to.

Edited October 28, 2010 by C0R

[Cirno]

I've always loved the Karma system in all of its forms. While it may not be a sure fire solution, I really can't see it having a detrimental effect.

However it is quite a bit of work to implement the infrastructure and have users adapt to it, I guess it's up to the admins to decide if the payoff would be worth it.

nnno no no no no. Please god, no Rep(utation) or Karma systems. I have seen the absolute worst of that in forums, and it always ends up with HAHAHA I LIKE YOUR POST, PLUS 1 REP! HAHAHA, YOU SAID SOMETHING MEAN TO A GUY I DON'T LIKE, PLUS 1 REP! HAHAHA, YOU SAID SOMETHING AS EQUALLY PRETENTIOUS AND OR OBNOXIOUS AS I WOULD HAVE SAID MYSELF, PLUS 1 REP! Granted the intended uses for it are really good, it just never works out that way.

[C0R]

I use karma in a general sense. Like the dictionary.

You reward someone for their intelligence, if it's a badge or title, points or rep. Doesn't make much difference to me. I'm talking about DESERVED rewards. Ones that the community can propose, and the moderators can approve, as was mentioned earlier.

Edited October 28, 2010 by C0R

[Cirno]

Ah, I see. I assumed you meant the actual "Karma" system used in forums, which is based on users "Plusing" or "Minusing" reputation points from other members per post. plusing? minusing? probably not even words but w/e

Of course I agree with a system like that. That's exactly what I was mentioning in my post; for members to be rewarded for good behavior would give them initiative to post better on their own. Some members can't be helped, of course, but there are other appropriate actions for people like that.