Hey if "Posting Dumb Shit" is an infraction worthy offense

[huey253]

Dacid- To correct you a little on 2C. Yes, it's not useless and the guard point that comes out in 3 frames makes it very tempting to use. But in almost any situation that 2C might look like a good idea, IB + 5A/2A/5B is a better option. If you're reliant on cat chair to make them respect you, then that means you're not comfortable enough with these normals. Against some people 2C is an easy out, but one that if you guess wrong it's a huge punch to the face. Because of this, people bait 2Cs all day long. It's a lot better to use 2A/5A/5B because if you guess wrong, then it's not as big of a deal as if you guessed wrong with 2C... especially since 2C has enough recovery to be a free FC for some characters.

wow polka, i'm impressed, you learned from all the times i ridiculed you for using that move

rachel's 2C is not a reliable reversal.

to be fair, you can ib inferno divider punish ragna's 5C on iB even if he chains into anything OR stops, and you'll win unless its blood kain or inferno divider (i'm pretty sure there is a gap on ib)

[Zidane]

stuff

Before I answer your post in a serious manner, i'd like to get some things straight:

COMMUNITY:

1: a unified body of individuals: as

a : state, commonwealth

b : the people with common interests living in a particular area; broadly : the area itself <the problems of a large community>

c : an interacting population of various kinds of individuals (as species) in a common location

MOB:

a disorderly crowd of people

So according to that and my understanding of past events where people like Blade were made fun of, the dustloop "MOB" unite--ERR, mobs up to ridicule a select group of people with either a) bad ideas b) stupid ideas c) wrong facts or d) all of the above because they feel they're harmful to the commu--ERR, mob.

The ridiculed "COMMUNITY" (including such fine individuals as Blade, you, ZhePrime, redsilversnake, that guy who says memorizing oki is gay, etc) are tired of being ridiculed so they form a crow--ERR, unified group of people and agree with the one guy who brought up the mob idea without forethought or reason, pretty much forming their own mo--ERR, community against the much larger, right-information oriented commun--ERR, mob.

Dustloop: Where Being In The Right Means You're A Dick.com

SO ANYWAY.

I remember you from loketest 2 or 3 FU. Granted I don't remember the exact posts ( were you the one making your own tier list or wish-list? ), I do remember they weren't helping anything out. I remember 1-2 people were telling you to stop, maybe by trolling, and you were arguing with them. Spirit Juice told you to stop and warned you, a goddamn admin or supermod or faggot, whatever his title is. So, is SJ apart of this "kill the scrubs" mob?

So if you look up my first posts on this account you'll notice all I did was try to correct misinformation about Hazama and explain things in a somewhat friendly / troll manner. People still argued when I pointed out clear and concise facts so I said fuck it and fuck them. That's me though. I have not noticed another single person who makes huge ass posts trolling a select individual.

So people like you and Blade, you guys necessarily don't post wrong information like "Ragna's 6B isn't an overhead!" or shit like that. Instead you post things irrelevant to the topic at hand or so far off the bullshit meter that people call you out for it. Corner proration is dumb. If I need to sit there and logically explain to another person why combos in the corner should not be prorated then I might as well shoot myself in the fucking face. If I need to explain to someone how top-level play isn't "memorizing oki and mixup", then i'm going to shoot myself in the fucking face. Again, I don't remember your exact posts so i'm just assuming you're the guy that posted his wishlist of changed IN THE DISCUSSION OF LOKE TEST CHANGES THREAD. And you wonder why you get called out on it?

You and Blade are black sheep because you haven't proven why you should be deemed an intelligent member of the community. Maybe you do have good ideas? I wouldn't know cause I haven't' seen them. So maybe if you stopped posting about the DL Mob™ out to get you and started having intelligent, rational discussion about FGs or BB, maybe you would stop being labeled as such and maybe the DL Mob™ wouldn't troll people like you and Blade.

EDIT FOR SPIRIT JUICE: So it pretty much comes down to the FC thing, where you're always going to believe X and i'm always going to believe Y. Can't troll or ague with you, you have the power so whatever.

So this thread is pretty useless then huh?

Edited October 29, 2010 by Zidane

[killionaire]

So the question is, when is the individual really correct over the opposing mob?

Far as I can recall, it hasn't happened very often.. I mean, that argument about the cat chair, even Uncle Juice and Alzarath were arguing against him, who were the two most qualified people in the thread. Of course, they also gave out the most detailed answers due to that experience.

Ok.. Maybe replace 'not very often" with "never".

Edited October 29, 2010 by killionaire

[FormerlyUnknown]

words

I do admit mob and community are words that are vastly different, and your power over the english language as been duely noted. I merely agreed with the OVERALL message of the statement and wished to expand on it. I am not trying to accuse the powers that be of dictating over the smaller players, merely trying to bring my view of events to light.

I also admit that yes, it was me who posted that list in the loctest discussion, however, I also posted a disclaimer stating that I was unsure if such a thing was right to be posted and stated that if a mod deemed it to be not allowed I would take it down. This, however, did not happen. Instead other members of the community confronted me on my 'list' and a discussion began. I was under the understanding that it was a discussion and nothing more, they were stateing their points, I was defending mine. It was not until the rest of the community started to bash on my ideas that I saw where it was all going, and it wasn't until things had gotten out of hand that a mod decided to step in, on the side of the general public. After a good 5+ pages of discussion it was explained that this was not the place for such discussions, and that I SPECIFIALLY must stop posting. I mentioned the fact that I had said I would stop if told to do so, and so I did, just like I had said I would in the very first post. In that instance the position the mod had taken was that that particular thread was not the proper place, thus making me beleive that all would be well if I merely made a new thread. However, the arguements themselves that had taken place, which were devoid of statements of "this does not belong here", showed me that my ideas were not necessarily wrong, but nonetheless not wanted by the general community. It wasn't the fact that my information was incorrect, it was the fact that my ideas challenged their mentality of the game in a way they refused to acknowledge, thus it became exceedingly obvious that my way of thinking was not welcome not just in the aformentioned thread, but in the whole of Dustloop itself. This is what I mean by the community shunning off "Black sheep" if you will, I mean the people who think differently, or have different ideas on things such as character design, damage output, or system changes, than the rest of the "Community". It is common for humans to be wary of different thinking, and I beleive that is the hurdle that I myself have tried to overcome in the community, to get the point across that just because and idea is different, doesn't make it wrong. However the FG "community" seems to very protective in it's ways, as any community would be, and so it is easy for a group to come together to throw out any free-thinkers of the genre.

i've already made 2 giant posts in this thread in a single day, so i think that's it for me...

[dragontamer]

So what can we do as a community? Less trolling, more contributing. People that spread misinformation will always be part of the community, and it's up to the sensible people of the community to correct them and more or less make sure proper information is given. Don't troll them, as it only makes things worse. People tend to forget this is a community and it needs to be treated as such. Staff cannot babysit the community in order to make it grow, and if we did like people are suggesting, we're just going to turn into Smash Boards where some secret society decides everything for the community. It is up to the community to improve itself, not a handful of people deciding what's best.

First, Thank you for taking the time to post this Spirit Juice. It appears that I agree with where you want this site to go as well as how the community should act. Where I disagree is your implementation strategy. (which forgive me if I've misinterpreted... but it appears that you want to continue down the current path that Dustloop is going. No rule or system changes).

IMO, the biggest problem facing Dustloop right now is the barrier to entry. Not to play the game, but honestly to attempt to make a good post and be a productive member of Dustloop. It is difficult to see how you're supposed to act, and it is difficult to see which posters are the ones you should be listening to. As such, the smarter posters probably will never post: it will take too much effort for them to figure out the culture here. The less intelligent ones will post, get trolled and made an example out of, and then leave the site. This is not sustainable.

True, it is noble to expect a community to grow on its own. But a community grows best when its leaders nurture it. After all, that is precisely what infractions and banning are for: taking out the weeds in the community so that the productive members can grow. After all, that is how the mod team currently takes care of this community. And I also agree with you, this powerful tool must only be used in the most extreme of circumstances. The other tool available to you is the creation of new moderators. This is also an extreme tool and can only be used in similar (but positive) circumstances: when a member is extremely trusted. (probably requires off-line interaction)

This does NOT mean that all tools will have extreme consequences. And similarly, it does NOT mean that using a tool often will have negative consequences. What I propose is to give moderators a weaker tool, the "infraction" to the "banhammer". The "badge system" is the infraction analogue to "promotion to moderator".

As far as a reputation kind of system (medals, gold stars, candy, whatever), that is pretty pointless. The only thing that matters in a fighting game community is tournament results, and anyone who cares about the competitive scene will know who the good players are and what their accomplishments are. Players don't need small little icons to represent their tournament accomplishments. If we had a kind of system where we had contribution points that essentially did nothing but add small little icons under people's names or something, it would probably do more harm than good. People would try to contribute not because they want to help the community, but rather that they just want silly little icons under their name. End result would likely be more misinformation spreading than we have now.

I disagree with your conclusion, although it appears the rest of your reasoning is sound.

http://stackoverflow.com/

My first example website when I brought the badge system up. Do people care about silly "trophies" and "reputation"? Unfortunately... yes. However, people are more helpful under these circumstances. Visit any of the "stackexchange" Q&A sites, and they're all pretty good quality, despite a good number of people caring only about reputation.

The system is good because it encourages assholes to act like civilized, decent people... because only civilized people get the reputation points. Similarly, people will be encouraged to make higher-quality posts if they do want the elusive badges. Especially if "Not being an idiot" is a requirement for the badge.

[Wirya]

A place where idiots act like smart guys in order to get something isn't exactly pretty, though.

[shtkn]

as another example, SRK has that contribution point system. have they had a problem with ppl pretending to help the community? i don't go there often enough to know.

I'll probably set up something this weekend so we can try it out for like 2 or 3 months, then remove if ppl hate it that much.

[severin]

SRK System:

Keits has 10104910940239402934 points,

few other people have 1 or 2 scattered about.

[Whiteboywilly]

stuff

So much respect for this post.

[Wirya]

Rep system and such should be implemented just for fun.

[Mr. Kimura]

SRK System:

Keits has 10104910940239402934 points,

few other people have 1 or 2 scattered about.

Cause he posts stuff on the front page, usually interesting things and others pointless... other than that I haven't seen people using the feature. I guess its legit to an extent.

[zeth07]

long post, sorry

If we're discussing how we can make Dustloop better overall in terms of the community and handling of threads my suggestions would be:

1) Be more strict when it comes to the rules - Rules #4, 8, 10, 11, and even 12 especially. If they don't follow those rules, give them an infraction or send a PM and give em a warning. Even though this may have to go by the mods interpretation of the rules, it should still make the site / community better overall. Or make a thread specifically for infraction resolutions or something if the infraction seemed unwarranted (which happened to even myself).

2) Add more mods - Whether it would be to BB General / BB Gameplay / Character Forums (assuming BlazBlue is the general problem area). Quite a few character forums have at least 2 mods, so even having 1 additional mod in those respective forums means that makes it even easier on the other mod/s to actually mod the threads. A more extreme suggestion would be reconsider the current mods and see if they are active enough to actually moderate their threads the way they need to be, but that's a last resort.

3) Start over with a clean slate (AFTER doing 1 + 2) - In terms of BB, once CS2 releases in my opinion everything should be wiped clean that isn't still relevant or at least put into the archived sections. Then once everything is at a fresh start, the mods should be able to actually mod the forums easily, especially if they have more help. The mods should be able to decide what threads are worth keeping around and what isn't. And I agree with the suggestion that BB Video Posting / Discussion threads should be in Gameplay because it is in fact gameplay related.

Anything regarding misinformation is supposed to be against the rules. People should get a warning either formally or informally and if they do it again, they get an infraction / ban whatever. If it is something more along the lines of an opinion, the mod should be able to decide if it is a true opinion or if they are trolling (again against the rules) and deal with it. If the mods / knowledgeable people correct them and it IS correct, and they still disagree/argue warn them and explain why.

That's all for my opinion on trying to help the Dustloop site/community out. If the "Pros" / serious players want Dustloop to be a respectable and a more serious site, then they should handle it that way, mod it that way, and be examples themselves instead of lowering themselves to the same level as the stupid people (or even putting themselves higher than others at those other players expense). Save that stuff for the Match Finder threads or I guess Tournament threads as well.

Again, sorry for the long post.

[Zidane]

pontification(man my vocabulary owns)

Ok you made a big ass wall of text which I read once but i'm not reading it again so I might misinterpret some points. Anyway, the whole "ideas challenge the mentality of the game" thing. So, to cover all bases:

1) Assuming you're talking about the wishlist fiasco: Wishlists have been around for fucking years. Besdies posting about it in a topic you shouldn't, the majority of players don't care what person X thinks should happen to Jin or Litchi or whoever.

2) Assuming you mean other ideas you might have: So what other ideas do you have that dustloop has shit on? Are they like corner proration or oki is gay? Those aren't thoughts that are just too outside the box for one to handle. They are seriously dumb thoughts provided by people who don't understand either BB or FGs in general enough to make such comments.

Assuming you have other ideas, i'd like to hear them and comment on them in a serious manner. Also, if you feel that DL as a whole is really shitting on everything you say, can't you maybe think that you might be saying dumb shit and think some things through?

[Dacidbro]

The Dacidbro's bored and needs to kill some time before work response

The biggest problem right now is the moderators. I've been a super powerful moderator on another site, and I know that almost every current mod here is doing it wrong (I don't really care if the mods think I'm wrong here, this is for your sake, and if any action is taken against me for saying this I'll be seriously disappointed)(Disclaimer; this does not apply to all people on the moderating staff)

Whenever there is a problem, a mod -strikes- with the "hand of god" mentality. Instead of caring at all about who is in the argument or why it took place, there is just a "This is the final verdict, accept your punishment, don't do it next time, the god of this website has spoken": That's TERRIBLE moderating. It separates the "common folk" from the "bourgeoisie", and makes many people actually DESIRE to rebel just for the communist manifesto of dustloop. When there is "power", people will go against it, especially if it's pseudo power like internet moderation that doesn't mean anything at all.

The way moderating is supposed to take place is there are people watching over the site, but they aren't above anyone at all. When a dispute happens they're calm about it and resolve it reasonably, giving infractions without attaching any sort of superiority or anger because there's no point. Calmly inform them that they broke the rules, and that they'll get more infractions if it happens again. If they keep doing it, ban them, without anger, and explain to everyone else why they were banned. It's so easy, just enforce the rules without taking it seriously and everything is great.

Yeah so there ya go, have fun kiddos

[Zidane]

Dacidbro: Too busy doing your job to tech 13 frame throws.

[Angel]

mutiny

+1 rep

[Dacidbro]

Dacidbro: Too busy doing your job to tech 13 frame throws.

dude fuck you :[

[Zidane]

Bro. All I do is post when someone posts something extremely stupid about Hazama or just in general.

You're posting in every goddamn forum telling people how to play their chars. Which I guess is cool for some scrubs / some things.. BUT I saw your post in the Hazama forum and I got a little mad. I thought about posting but I thought you might be trolling. You still might be. I mighta been caught. Assuming you're not you're making me fucking sad man.

[Dacidbro]

When was that :v

And I usually only actually post about how to play a character if something is going really wrong with the discussion or I'm trolling

[A.X.I.S.]

long post, sorry

If we're discussing how we can make Dustloop better overall in terms of the community and handling of threads my suggestions would be:

1) Be more strict when it comes to the rules - Rules #4, 8, 10, 11, and even 12 especially. If they don't follow those rules, give them an infraction or send a PM and give em a warning. Even though this may have to go by the mods interpretation of the rules, it should still make the site / community better overall. Or make a thread specifically for infraction resolutions or something if the infraction seemed unwarranted (which happened to even myself).

2) Add more mods - Whether it would be to BB General / BB Gameplay / Character Forums (assuming BlazBlue is the general problem area). Quite a few character forums have at least 2 mods, so even having 1 additional mod in those respective forums means that makes it even easier on the other mod/s to actually mod the threads. A more extreme suggestion would be reconsider the current mods and see if they are active enough to actually moderate their threads the way they need to be, but that's a last resort.

3) Start over with a clean slate (AFTER doing 1 + 2) - In terms of BB, once CS2 releases in my opinion everything should be wiped clean that isn't still relevant or at least put into the archived sections. Then once everything is at a fresh start, the mods should be able to actually mod the forums easily, especially if they have more help. The mods should be able to decide what threads are worth keeping around and what isn't. And I agree with the suggestion that BB Video Posting / Discussion threads should be in Gameplay because it is in fact gameplay related.

Anything regarding misinformation is supposed to be against the rules. People should get a warning either formally or informally and if they do it again, they get an infraction / ban whatever. If it is something more along the lines of an opinion, the mod should be able to decide if it is a true opinion or if they are trolling (again against the rules) and deal with it. If the mods / knowledgeable people correct them and it IS correct, and they still disagree/argue warn them and explain why.

That's all for my opinion on trying to help the Dustloop site/community out. If the "Pros" / serious players want Dustloop to be a respectable and a more serious site, then they should handle it that way, mod it that way, and be examples themselves instead of lowering themselves to the same level as the stupid people (or even putting themselves higher than others at those other players expense). Save that stuff for the Match Finder threads or I guess Tournament threads as well.

Again, sorry for the long post.

1. the reason they don't reinforce those rules so hard because people might either be ignorant or new and banning them or infracting them wouldn't be fair unless they understand why and even then thats just mean, also trolling is somewhat acceptable if its not malicious or just plain retarded.(reference is the loctest discussion thread when I snapped on FU, moving on.)your making it sound like they should be playing uncle hardass and ban and infract people when they do something stupid, hey some people get stupid, happens to all of us.

2. they don't need more mods, as far as I'm concerned the mods are active and the ones who don't look active might be lurking anyways. (TGS for example rarely ever posts and I don't see him on but he can be lurking and not signed on anyways.)

hell some mods don't even post in the character forums much. (Xie, Bjholmes etc tc.) but they are active enough to take care of things every now and then.

seriously don't see a reason to add more unless you want DL to have mod influence 24/7.

3. that would take forever and it would be so much shit to sort...no one would want to do it unless your tolerant or bored, and besides SJ already said that the stuff in the archive is liable to be deleted because there will eventually be too much stuff on DL. (example is when SJ deleted most of BBG, and Shtkn made that notice about the post limit blabla bla.)

and about misinformation people shouldn't get infracted because they don't know unless they continue to be ignorant...if they want to get better at the game then they just need to stop posting and read and if they have a question ask, never be afraid to ask, I don't care how dumb the question is, it can be "how do I punish ice car on block?" "

"whats a RC?"

thats the problem with some newbies, they just don't know, come here posting like they know everything and either: A. they get ignored or B. they get rolled on.

I know this because I was new and very ignorant, now I'm kinda not stupid or whatever.

[Skye]

And I usually only actually post about how to play a character if something is going really wrong with the discussion or I'm trolling

You were trying to tell Rachel players that 2c was worth something substantial.

Not that I'm making any snarks at your knowledge on the game, but you very often (s)troll into unfamiliar territory.

[TGS]

Nothing to see here, move along.