Dacidbro Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Don't give up on it that fast. Tager has a lot of new tricks that people have yet to figure out how to abuse. That being said, it's probably going to be an ass matchup like it always has been. I'll try to help you figure it out when patch drops, alright?
Isorropia Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Tager has a lot of new tricks that people have yet to figure out how to abuse 2C>3C. Volt charge > 720. 6A superarmour. I wouldn't call that a 'lot of new tricks'. >.> But that being said he certainly hasn't lost access to his old tricks, notably everything involving gadget RC (consider that gadget itself now gives an additional 5 meter, meaning more combos will end with enough meter to reset).
Mike Z Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'll try to help you figure it outOh, for really really real? Gee wiz, NOW we're set! (^.^)
Manta Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 But that being said he certainly hasn't lost access to his old tricks, notably everything involving gadget RC (consider that gadget itself now gives an additional 5 meter, meaning more combos will end with enough meter to reset). IIRC the only way you can even turn GF into a mixup for arakune is to RC it. Otherwise he just tele-dashes away. Slipperly little blob making all of our attempts at cornering him useless.
natearistata Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If you double GF his backdash he pops back up right next to you.
Isorropia Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Also once we get CS2 I want to test if there is some level of held 6A which will catch the backdash.
Manta Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 If you double GF his backdash he pops back up right next to you. Is it possible to time it so that you get more frame advantage from that than the single GF? That is, enough of an advtange to stop him just tele-dashing again.
Sponson Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'm gonna say no because GF is a set-move. No amount of hits in a combo will cause the untechable time to increase or decrease, unlike say, Atomic Collider. Also: These Tager vidyas still aren't really utilizing 6A, is it because it loses to lows and is super punishable on reaction?
Astaroth136 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I noticed that too. Still though... not one held 6A in about six videos I watched yesterday is really weird. Is this a sign?
Manta Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 I'm gonna say no because GF is a set-move. No amount of hits in a combo will cause the untechable time to increase or decrease, unlike say, Atomic Collider. Also: These Tager vidyas still aren't really utilizing 6A, is it because it loses to lows and is super punishable on reaction? I don't think he means that the second GF catches them in the throw again, just the magnetism pulls arakune at the same speed he moves away at when dashing and thus ends his dash where he started.
Mike Z Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 CS1 frame data: Total shortest Gadget whiff is 24, and you can only do it before they recover so that's at a minimum 23f if you do it right as they recover, or 21f if you do it ASAP. Ara's backdash is 34f, giving Tager more than enough time to hold a 360B or 720 since Ara will pop up right next to Tager.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Nope when 360B is held its active until he is finished and ara still has recovery on the backdash...in fact he has more recovery than before. Tager would have put up a better fight if he didn't play so half hazardly and if he picked his times to 2C/collider. On another note you guys reminded me that we get 5 meter from gadget which means if you haven't gotten into the habit 6C>j.2C>2B>2C off a magnetized collider then learn it. It gives us just enough meter do another gadget reset. Edited January 17, 2011 by A.X.I.S. Whoops changing a word.
Skye Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 No, I didn't mean a backdash then forward dash. Arakune's forward dash is faster, and it's a common unorthodox tactic to forward dash Tager. It works well if Tager is holding the button down in an attempt to pull in your backdash. Or we could always jump.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 If I don't have meter from gadget on Ara I just use one 5A, that way it stuff's his poke and his jump and you have enough time to hit him out of his back dash. Since I don't see forward dash a lot I can assume that we can hit him when we turn around. I could be wrong though.
Astaroth136 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 On another note you guys reminded me that we get 5 meter from gadget which means if you haven't gotten into the habit 6C>j.2C>2B>2C off a magnetized collider then learn it. It gives us just enough meter do another gadget reset. Yep, I started doing that not too long ago. The 6C randomly wiffs sometimes though, which I'm assuming is me missing the timing. Is there a way to get it more than 80% of the time? In other words, how do you guys do it reliably?
Isorropia Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 The most reliable way is to make sure you do the collider whiff as soon as humanly possible. You want to press the button just after they start falling from the apex of their bounce (keep trying till you figure out the soonest moment you can do it). Then abuse advanced input by holding the 6C, makes it a lot easier to do.
A.X.I.S. Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 ^What he said. I sometimes delay the j.2C to make sure it connects, its something you have to do to make it work on Valk anyways.
Osuna Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Yep, I started doing that not too long ago. The 6C randomly wiffs sometimes though, which I'm assuming is me missing the timing. Is there a way to get it more than 80% of the time? In other words, how do you guys do it reliably?Pay attentions to where they are when you whiff the collider, after looking at that for a while, I got a sense for when I could land the 6C, when I only had enough time for 6B etc. That way, even when I do screw up I don't completely drop it. also don't forget how generous BB is with buffer times. About delaying, the j.2c, I'm not sure what that does to make it connect more often, it's not like if you whiffed the 6C that you'll accidentally j.2c and be in trouble, or that you can do it too early on most of the cast. I know Valk needs a delay, but Makoto won't get hit by the 2C if you do the j.2C too late. No, I didn't mean a backdash then forward dash. Arakune's forward dash is faster, and it's a common unorthodox tactic to forward dash Tager. It works well if Tager is holding the button down in an attempt to pull in your backdash. Or we could always jump.It is? I was under the impression that his forward dash was 48 frames (Can he cancel it or something?), which is way slower than his backdash, if gadget whiff still pulls in closer, he'd still get the punish doing the same motions. If you had a great sense of timing, I suppose you could hold the gadget for like 6 or 7 frames depending on how early it started and then 720. That way you have an option that beats backdash, (in theory) forward dash and is safe if they jump.
Manta Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Well if arakune forward dashes, surely all you need is just a little bit of GF's pull to make him pop up behind you. After all, it doesn't matter so much which side he pops up on for 360 motions, so long as he's close.
Sponson Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) For 6c to land in a collider whiff combo, I tend to look at how long my combo is already. Like for every iteration of the loop (collider, collider whiff, xx) I'll try to throw out 6c first, then 6b, then 2b. Like I wouldn't throw out a 6c, j.2c after I'd already thrown out a 6b prior in the combo. On a side note: What are the best options for comboing off an unmag'd yomi AC? I always freak out and treat it like the end of a combo, ergo: BSledge, tech trap/GF or j.c whiff, instant j.2c, GF Edited January 18, 2011 by Sponson
Astaroth136 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 On a side note: What are the best options for comboing off an unmag'd yomi AC? I always freak out and treat it like the end of a combo, ergo: BSledge, tech trap/GF or j.c whiff, instant j.2c, GF That's when j.B combos are used. They're stupidly hard though.
natearistata Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klQMC2eUKcY#t=13m15s <_<
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