Dacidbro Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 It's almost like, you know, there's a reason the Tager players aren't using those new "tricks"...? You would seriously expect people to fully flesh out new tricks in one month, with fewer players playing Tager than most and only getting one play on the arcade in a long line? Get out of here, and please don't be so mocking with your tone it hurts my feelings.
bbq sauce Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Dear Mr. LordKnight (no space), <hilarious troll post> Mr. St1ckBuG Team St1ckBuG, LLC. orz orz orz orz
Osuna Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Lmfao Too fucking good TOO FUCKING GOOD. @Osuna: There is more reason to believe it will be a better matchup than a worse one, as this installment was intended to balance the characters better, where Ara was on the top and Tager was on the bottom. For that reason, I can more safely say to wait for people to figure out the matchup and it should be BETTER, than wait for people to figure out the matchup and it should be WORSE. Basically, I haven't seen any Tagers trying to use their new fancy tricks, probably because human error is a huge factor in most of his new possibilities and they simply haven't had enough time to play around with it. IB 6A could be very strong, IB Voltech 720 may be very strong. He has possibilities, give it time.Indeed, given the premise your provided that does make more sense, that's still not what you said though. Anywho let's run with it. Tager has been the bottom in 2 games, and is never intended to be top. IB got nerfed to the point where 360A and 720 can only be used about half as often as before (Varies match up to match up of course), and IB XYH 720 doesn't make any sense, it would only delay the 720 by adding CH start up frames. 6A was used a lot early on, and isn't anymore. I'm of the opinion that's probably because it has no obvious uses. There's also the difficulty of using any amount of charge on the 6A because it makes it pretty punishable on reaction. I don't disagree with you that the match up is better, or at the very least not very much worse because of some changes made to Arakune, but Tager's options don't look better for this particular match up. Unless upon close inspection of frame data in the future someone figures out a way to use 6A that is both useful and not completely circumventable by ara's many options that currently don't worry about it too much, you're still wrong. We all know Game developers don't have a balance dial that just fixes things, and if they did it's no secret they don't want Tager to get too good. We can talk about what it should be on principle, but that doesn't mean anything. Tager's throws got buffed, but his ability to get you into his throw range is not so hot. On top of that his other combos, the ones far more likely to actually hit arakune, got damage nerfs. 6A loses to so much stuff on reaction already that proper use of it would be too specific at this point for it to be amazing in this match up. There's also the idea that the developers were able to come up with a way to balance the match up with his 6A, which is so subtle that we haven't got it yet. When were developers so clever with subtle details hidden away in the frame data that improves archtypally bad match ups? If we figure something like that out it almost certainly would not have been planned, it never is. On the other hand, he has to get us 2-3 times now instead of 1-2, and he can't full life combo us off curse or a fatal anymore. IB got nerfed, his a's got buffed and his f.g got stupid. Seems to me the important changes are ara nerfs/buffs and Tagers nerfs. I'm more bothered that your argument made no sense than that you think the match up will get better.
Dacidbro Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Okay, let me try to explain some of the things that keep me optimistic. Lets say the Arakune V Ragna matchup, for example's sake. Ragna just HAVING a DP makes a lot of Arakune's options weaker, just because he has it. You don't even have to use it more than once, just to show your opponent they can't do that shit. I'm thinking similarly with 6A or Voltech 720 (Which DOES have more use than you realize). If you beat one jB with 6A, via HARD read call-out, he may become more hesitant to use it for his mix up (Where you can actually use this is up in the air, I imagine it will screw with his mid-range linear approach). Similarly, if you use voltech 720 to beat any of his mix up, he might get scared to mix you up. The reason I would suggest buffering it through a Voltech is because then you aren't restricted to the 6 frames of non-jumping, and you can specifically press it the very moment his hit box is available. That opens up beating well spaced non-magnetized 6A's with 720, for example. Hopefully that explains my argument a little better. I'm in class, and didn't have much time to eloquently explain, and still really don't care that much if anyone else gets it or not. If everyone writes off Tager too fast they'll probably just lose to him in some important tournament match later, a-la Justin Wong and Adon.
Nini Heart Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Smoking weed/drinking will definitely fuck you up lol, especially weed. You don't need a magic pill to help your reflexes, just play more (IRL if possible) and you'll get it. As I feared... Gonna try toning my consumption down and see if it helps me react to overheads.
Lord Knight Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Dear Mr. LordKnight (no space), I've heard that because of how broken Litchi is in CS1, that you've become way too spoiled and that you're a top tier whore (even though you played her in CT... but you're still a top tier whore IMO). I also heard that people say that her tier placement was the only thing holding them back from "bodying you" for "free". Because of this, do you see yourself sucking so bad in CS2, that you'll be forced to go back playing Brawl with middle school children? Do you believe that because Litchi won't be top anymore (I mean comon, the game has been out for a month now, we know who is top tier week 1) that these players will mop the floor with you? Do you feel that people tend to over-analyze fighting games, when it just comes down to making blind decisions and educated guesses based on your knowledge of the mechanics and matchup(s)? Of course there is some physical element to it in terms of reflexes and execution, but these are trivial characteristics when trying to find answers to specific scenarios. Pretty much, do you think FG's in general can be broken down through common sense and correct information (such as published frame data)? Do you feel that people who hate BB actually don't understand how to play it and are just salty because they get randomed out easily? Do you feel that there is (a lot of) dumb shit in BB in terms of balance and mechanics? Do you think some of these things were dealth with in CS2? When is CS2 going to be released through DLC for free? I can't seem to find Mori's geoctities page to find the correct date. My friends and I were REALLY SURE that it was going to be released 2 weeks before arcade, but Mori lied to us. On a scale of 1-GODLIKE (godlike godlike godlike), exactly how good is K-BBQ? Which do you perfer: Japan, Brittania, China, or France? Sincerely, Mr. St1ckBuG Team St1ckBuG, LLC. For the most part. There's legit reasons like not liking the characters and system, but people who hate on BB probably don't understand the game and don't like what they are losing too. This is fine. I like BB's mechanics. There's a lot of dumb stuff this version, but most characters have it. CS2 does deal with balance problems of CS1, the main one being the strongest characters are the ones with the highest damage and situation advantage off random hits. Litchi (obvious, damage, corner, daisharin), Tao (damage, can choose decent or oki or to retreat and she has the best mobility by far), Bang (damage, leads to strong pressure/mixup). CS2 has done a good job of overall removing that (or at least, making it not so prevelant). Mori's geocities might be down, so you might want to check his japanese blog where he releases radio shows for VIP members. KBBQ is probably 5 godlikes, but KBBQ BUFFET is probably unmeasurable amounts of godlike. SSS: Sister SS - Britain, Japan S - France A- China Hey LK, I noticed your response on top player mentality and having a strategy for a character you are fighting. i've talked to combofiend as well and he had a similar response saying that he has his own custom flowchart for his matchups. can you give an example of what your strategy looks like? (if u can, could u give me a strat as if you were rachel vs. jin) should it be comprehensive or more simple to account for your opponent's playstyle? For me, matchup strategy should be comprehensive. This is knowing the best options in all aspects of the match for both your character and the opponent. You don't have to do "more simple" things to account for your opponent's playstyle, because if you know their character, then you already know all of their options, and can adjust to their playstyle. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9354-CS-Litchi-vs-Jin&p=689135&viewfull=1#post689135 - optional reading. LK, what is the best way to get your opponents to respect your pressure? I play Ragna and he has a lot of trouble forcing teching and blocking outside of 3C and 22C oki, and even then the 3C requires you to condition your opponent. Do some characters just have a hard time with this? First of all, I don't see this as much of a problem for Ragna. Madao and Hell's fang knockdown is very good. Ragna's problem is more of how linear his pressure is. It pretty much depends who you're playing - against a bad or medium level player, you can just do simple things. If they are disrespecting your pressure, either do things that are safer, or just try to hit them - if they aren't thinking hard, who cares, hit them with something simple and fast. Against a good player, you need to cycle through your offensive options in a somewhat random way and see how they respond. Edited February 7, 2011 by Lord Knight
CakeWasBannedd Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I'm thinking similarly with 6A or Voltech 720 (Which DOES have more use than you realize). >i know more about tager than you, the guy who mains tager and is actually a good player okay.jpg
Dacidbro Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 >i know more about tager than you, the guy who mains tager and is actually a good player okay.jpg Are you retarded? I used to think you had potential, but I'm rapidly losing faith.
CakeWasBannedd Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 DACID THINKS BADLY OF ME NO I MUST CONFORM TO HIS VIEWS OF INTERNET COOLNESS TO EARN HIS APPROVAL BECAUSE HE'S SUCH AN AMAZING PLAYER AND PERSONNNNNNNN get over yourself faggot
Dacidbro Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Your argument for why my sentence had no validity is revoked by his own statement showing he had not realized another use for Voltech 720, which I explained in my post. Use your brain, I know you're smart, stop being an idiot.
ZONG_one Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Which do you perfer: Japan, Brittania, China, or France? that is all.. be back in a couple weeks.
ATG Warlord Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 ^^ ROFL Dacid and Cake, please continue entertaining me
Dacidbro Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I'll keep entertaining you as long as there's some douchebag waiting to call me out, in any thread. And I promise you, as long as this site is "dustloop.com", it'll keep happening.
Nini Heart Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 You two mind not polluting this thread like every single other thread with your love trolls? We all know Cake is being tsun to catch Dacid's attention. Don't fall for obvious trollbaits bro. Let's keep it(this thread) classy.
ZONG_one Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Hey dacidbro. Get blown up by 14 year old canadians. :[
Dacidbro Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 If you think he came out on top on that one you need to adjust your glasses kid PS your arakune is garbage
CakeWasBannedd Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Hey dacidbro. Get blown up by 14 year old canadians. :[ i'm 15 now :3
ZONG_one Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 If you think he came out on top on that one you need to adjust your glasses kid PS your arakune is garbage He came out on top. By your doing, not his. and you lose to my ara.
Dacidbro Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Maybe like.. half a year ago LK what's your opinion on Zong1's arakune
ATG Warlord Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 dacidbro using tao is like the most depressing shit i've ever seen it's almost motivating me to suicide, srs I think Dacid's Tao is legit but cake seems to think otherwise. (Adding some fuel to the fire) Question: LK, I saw ppl using Litchi's 2A as an AA .. it seems very situational; what characters(or moves) in general do you recommend using 2A AA instead of 5A AA against?
ZONG_one Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 LK what's your opinion on Zong1's arakune HAHAHAAH GDLK
Lord Knight Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 Maybe like.. half a year ago LK what's your opinion on Zong1's arakune He airthrew my Tao 6B ;_; Question: LK, I saw ppl using Litchi's 2A as an AA .. it seems very situational; what characters(or moves) in general do you recommend using 2A AA instead of 5A AA against? It can pretty much be used interchangeably with 5A. The main exceptions are vs Jin jC, Ragna jB, and Arakune jB, where 2A is the stronger choice.
FlyingVe Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Okay, let me try to explain some of the things that keep me optimistic. Lets say the Arakune V Ragna matchup, for example's sake....*snip* Okay, I've read this and I will now attempt to give a slightly more... robust answer. First, lets look at XYH the move, it has 6 frames of vulnerable startup. In terms of using this as a way of making the 720 into some kind of reversal has less effectiveness as most characters 5A, in addition to adding 6 frames to the 720 startup (11 total). Now the XYH cancel does have uses, the most obvious being "BOO 720," the more sneaky being abusing the fact that Tager doesn't undergo hit/blockstun during the XYH. This is neat but at best a gimmick. 6A suffers a similar problem, it has no armor at startup or during the attack part of the move, so to beat something with it, the move would need to have ass recovery or your timing would need to be exquisite. This is especially difficult given how slow the move is. In fact, the move is so slow that it's very likely a character (like Kune), could land and just continue is pressure (5A) and hit you out of it. The premise that this matchup isn't strictly worse isn't totally off based on all the reasons Osuna already listed. But it's worth pointing out that Kune can spend 50 meter to get full curse off of many of the options against Tager, a character that does not have the mobility to avoid them (he must block/endure it). I could still be misunderstanding what your going for, I am trying to understand, but, to be blunt, you sound like someone who doesn't really play Tager. Edit: Also, alot of Jap Tager players were trying to abuse these things in the very early CS2 days, but they weren't really working, so they stopped. Also, you can hard read Arakunes jB with a well placed 2A or 2C already. Edited February 7, 2011 by FlyingVe
ZONG_one Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 He airthrew my Tao 6B ;_; Hahaha I love you LK.
Recommended Posts